Ono: Does the sun have itrinsic existence regardless of any kind of knowability? Intrinsic means without knowabilityiit does exist then as o. If you say that yet know you can still a such a universe can still exist, then i can say anything can still exist. We are running up against these objections. And it's good what i first said when i first said all of this. In fact, the first point itself, does this room exist before you know it? Some say yes. Some say no. Certainly, see, this is not a debate. Philosophically speaking, this isnot a debate between idealism and realism. We are