Fail to Scale: Why Good Research Doesn’t Always Make Great Policy | John A. List
Behavioral Grooves Podcast
Economic Theory Doesn't Have Predictions on Rejection
When we use really large stakes, people reject much less often. Economic theory doesn't have predictions on what you should like or not. The prediction from economic theory is, if it's costlier to reject, you do less of it. And when the cost gets too expensive, people don't demand fairness any more.
Lots of us have good ideas, some even back their ideas up with successful research. So why do these good ideas fail to scale into great, big ideas? John A. List shares the personal example of his highly successful kindergarten reform in South Side Chicago which then didn’t scale across the nation. His intrigue into this case led him to pen a phenomenal new book about scalability, “The Voltage Effect”.
John A. List, is a Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago as well as recently becoming the first ever Chief Economist at Walmart. Our conversation with John touches on the ambition he has to change the world for the better in this new role at Walmart. But the primary drive for our chat was to discuss his great new book “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”. Listen in to learn about the concept of scalability and why it is so hard to go from, “the petri dish’ (as he puts it) to successful broad scale programs.
As is often the case, we round off our episode with a desert island music selection from our guest. And John’s very thoughtful consideration of the question yields a top notch selection of musical artists. Don’t miss this part of the discussion!
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Topics
(6:06) Welcome and speed round questions.
(11:03) Why John named his book The Voltage Effect.
(13:41) John’s involvement in the Chicago Heights Early Childhood (CHECC) school project.
(23:05) What biases influence people?
(26:29) How Nancy Reagan’s good intentions are an example of scaling failure.
(30:52) Scaling behavioral science.
(39:17) How is John going to change the world as Chief Economist at Walmart?
(43:33) How can insights from charity be applied to other sectors?
(54:55) John’s desert island music selection.
(1:04:11) A “High Voltage” Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim.
© 2022 Behavioral Grooves
John A. List’s book, “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”: https://amzn.to/3a0GOjh
“Just Say No” campaign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Say_No
Anna Karenina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina
“Stakes Matter in Ultimatum Games” (2011) by Steffen Andersen, Seda Ertaç, Uri Gneezy, Moshe Hoffman and John List: https://econpapers.repec.org/paper/hhscbsnow/2011_5f001.htm
George Lowenstein, Episode 67 “George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/
“Parent Nation: Unlocking Every Child's Potential, Fulfilling Society's Promise” by Dana Suskind: https://amzn.to/3wD8YIQ
Sam Tatam, Episode 295 “For Revolutionary Solutions, Look To Evolutionary Ideas”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/evolutionary-ideas-sam-tatam/
Scott Jeffrey, Episode 3: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/bg-3-scott-jeffrey-phd-monmouth-university/
Thomas Steenburgh, Episode 51: “How to Sell New Products”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/thomas-steenburgh-how-to-sell-new-products/
To leave Apple podcast review: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behavioral-grooves-podcast/id1303870112
To support Behavioral Grooves via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
The Beatles “Don’t Let Me Down”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCtzkaL2t_Y
Freddie Mercury/Queen “These are the Days of Our Lives”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB4K0scMysc
Johnny Cash “Ring Of Fire”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCMz70Fm5pA
Marty Robbins “El Paso”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig2GF1sZSEA
The Red Hot Chili Peppers “Under The Bridge”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE
AC/DC “High Voltage”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnjh-zp6pP4
Gordon Lightfoot “If You Could Read My Mind”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5tr_L31StI
Kris Kristofferson “For the Good Times”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX094Nn4L_Y
Waylon Jennings “I’ve Always Been Crazy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI2MhAGtZgE
Fleetwood Mac “Dreams”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3ywicffOj4
Stevie Nicks “Stand Back”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwS9BIqbffU
White Stripes “We’re Going to Be Friends”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfD8d3XJok
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