#203 "It Reminds Me Most of 2007" — David Rosenberg on Market Bubbles and Economic Illusions
The Julia La Roche Show
Skepticism in Employment Data: Unpacking the Numbers
This chapter explores the challenges in interpreting current employment metrics, especially non-farm payrolls, which have been significantly downward revised. It questions the credibility of reported growth in light of declining working hours and other economic indicators, suggesting a more nuanced understanding of the job market's health.
In episode 203, David Rosenberg, founder and president of Rosenberg Research, joined Julia to discuss the current economic landscape and his outlook for the future.
✨ This episode is sponsored by Public.com. Lock in your 6.6% yield: https://public.com/julia ✨
Paid endorsement for Public Investing, Inc. Not investment advice. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for US Listed and registered securities, options and Bonds in a self-directed brokerage account are offered by Public Investing. ETFs, options and Bonds are available to US members only. *A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 fractional investment-grade and high-yield bonds. The 6.6% yield is the average annualized yield to maturity (YTM) across all ten bonds in the Bond Account, before fees, as of 9/18/2024. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate, and a bond’s YTM is “locked in” when the bond is purchased. Your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTM is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTM of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity, or if the issuer calls or defaults on the bond. While corporate bond yields should fall in reaction to a Federal Reserve rate cut, we cannot know whether that will be true of the bonds in the Bond Account, how quickly bond yields will respond, or how much they will decline. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. Fractional Bonds also carry risks including liquidity risk, interest rate risk, credit risk, inflation risk, and potential tax liabilities. Read more about the risks associated with fixed income and fractional bonds and learn more about the Bond Account at https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account.
In this episode, Rosenberg challenged the prevailing optimism about the U.S. economy, arguing that the apparent strength in GDP numbers is largely due to unsustainable government spending. He highlighted discrepancies between official data and other economic indicators, suggesting that the economy may be weaker than it appears. Rosenberg expressed concern about the stock market's high valuations, drawing parallels to previous market bubbles. He warned of potential risks, including a possible recession in 2025, and discussed the dangers of excessive exposure to equities, particularly among older investors. Rosenberg advocated for a more defensive investment strategy, recommending an increased allocation to bonds and gold, while maintaining a cautious approach to equities. Throughout the conversation, he emphasized the importance of understanding historical patterns and the risks of "new era" thinking in financial markets.
Links:
https://rosenbergresearch.com/
https://x.com/EconguyRosie
Timestamps:
00:23 Introduction and overview of current economic situation
01:03 Discussion on GDP growth and survey data divergence
02:57 Analysis of the Fed's Beige Book and economic indicators
05:19 Impact of government spending on GDP numbers
08:18 Discussion on fiscal policy and upcoming election
10:49 Analysis of government employment data and labor market
13:31 Long-term effects of fiscal policy
15:15 Lack of capital spending cycle and global economic slowdown
17:37 Diffusion analysis of the US economy
19:54 Potential fiscal policy changes after the election
21:10 Discussion on potential recession and historical comparisons
25:15 Analysis of interest rates and debt service costs
27:43 Lags in economic policy effects
31:35 Job report revisions and data reliability issues
35:43 Stock market valuation and earnings growth
39:21 Risks in current stock market valuations
42:26 Discussion on portfolio rebalancing and asset allocation
46:40 Concerns about passive index investing
50:01 Potential impact of stock market decline on the economy
54:15 Investment strategy and portfolio allocation
57:22 Approach to investing in bonds
01:00:45 Total return expectations for bonds
01:02:27 Parting thoughts
The AI-powered Podcast Player
