everyone is choosing to focus on, especially at a time where it feels like one week your hyper focused on the creator economy, next week your suposed to lean bout the metervers the next we call your cor friends out of the ruqand f t twitter pick. So let's just start by focusing on the meteverse, then taking a step backwards and going from there. So just to start gabby at, is your definition of the meta verse? We all know it. Everyone has their own definition of it. What is your definition of it? And then what has gotten you excited about the topic?

Yes, sure am. You know, i rarely use the term meta verse when i when i talk about all these big ideas. And i think it's because it's such an umbrella term for all the areas that i like to think about. So to me, crypto fits into it. Web thre fits into it. Digital culture and kind of future of social fits into it. But the the definition that i really like is the one from matthew ball's piece, aptly named the meta verse a. And there's a summary of that piece in one of paky mc cormick's a recent pieces. And the way he summarizes it is, the meta bers is always on. It's a real time world where a multiple people can pate at the same time, and it has a fully functioning economy that spans the physical and digital worlds. So, again, like super umbrella term, but that's kind of what i use to describe it. So

the most obvious question here, you went through a couple of dfferent things, crypto web, three. But i'm really interested in on line culture, especially given some of your writing around culture recently. Can you just define on line culture? We've had a few conversations on the pagas about it, but define line culture within the context of like this broad we're going to get deeper conversation around the metapers.

Yes, sure. These are like the simplest questions, but also literally the hardest questions. When i think about digital culture, i think about the the corners of the inner net, like the the niches of the inner net that people spend a lot of time in. And what's interesting about those spaces is, when they happen in real life, it's like small, intimate communities that don't have the opportunity to reach mass scale. But when you have the resources that you have on the inner net, it's actually quite easy, am, relatively, for these, like, small communities that think about these niche topics, to reach mass scale, on mass penetration. And so am like whats an example would be a, like the whole gamestock frenzy that came from a tiny re tread. That's like a perfect example to me of digital culture, kind of the way that i think about it more broadly, and maybe we'll find tow to talk about this later on in the podcast, but the sort of old guard of social apse that initially brought us on line, like twitter and my sface and facebook and things like that, was all about sharing real life experiences on line and connecting with your real life connections on line. So facebook was all about bringing your college friends on line and interacting with them in a digital space. And inster graham was all about taking photos of your real life with your real life friends and sharing them in a digital space. And for those use cases, it worked out really well, obviously. Like we use those products every day. But in kind of an unintended consequence of those products is now we spend so much time on the internet. Even before this podcast live, a one of you ask me, you know, how you all know each other? And we know each other through the internet. And like, now these our friends, and these are connections that i have in real life and in the digital world. And so when i think about digital culture, i think about what are the products and services and modes of interaction that will help us, you know, make these digital connections and digital experiences better. So kind of at a high level, let'show that's how i think about it. Yonow,

i'm thinking the obvious follow up, when you say something, make these experiences better, what would you say the problem whath these experiences are to day? I

mean, the problem is they just fundamentally warn't built for these use cases. And so, you know, an you think about instergram, inster gram is great at sharing real life experiences, taking photos. But when we think about the amount of time that we spend on line, don't just take photos any more.