Bart Connolly: I'm wondering if you have any further thoughts on how conscious beings can best pursue spiritual interests in the material world. Should we just regard them as something to outgrow or perhaps should we find ways using disciplines like meditation and technology to pursue this goal, much as we use science and technology to help with physical health? David Maxwell: Sadly, I don't know. But I take what the important point of Alan Leitman's discussion was is that there are experiences that we have, there are feelings that we have,. There are values that we have as human beings that we struggle to put into clear, crisp, naturalistic language.