Are There Versions of Manipulation Arguments That Are Sound?

There are versions of either the manipulation argument or the consequence argument that are sound. But it seems to me noone be careful l i'm not saying that these arguments are such that any reasonable person would be an incompatiblees. I just think they're such that it makes it reasonable for someone whosay hadn't made up their mind yet, or say, someone who was a compatible is going to go ahead and accept them.