I interviewed Jack and Ryan from AJR, the band that has built one of the most original voices in modern music. We talked about how they use humor and vulnerability to write songs that connect on a deeper level, why embarrassment is often the best creative compass, how Broadway and magic inspire their live shows, and what they’ve learned about navigating TikTok, streaming, and the new economics of the music industry. We also explored their thoughts on AI, why imperfection makes art feel authentic, and how they’ve grown from writing dorm-room party songs to filling arenas around the world.
If you want to understand the future of music, create art that’s both playful and profound, or learn how to stay true to yourself in a world driven by algorithms, this conversation will give you a rare inside look at the creative process of AJR.
00:00:00 The truth in music
00:09:41 Embarrassment as creative fuel
00:20:05 Context is everything
00:29:24 From 2D to 3D songwriting
00:39:36 Live shows as the real artwork
00:49:42 Truth, AI, and the future of music
00:59:41 Haters, resilience, and regret-proof songs
01:09:27 Writing a thousand bad songs
01:18:58 Partnership and balance
01:28:32 Themes, loss, and the arc of Maybe Man
Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible.
Follow me
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel
X: https://x.com/david_perell
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
