And when

you're not sleeping, and you're working that relentlessly. And again, I've seen you work like this from afar since the 90s, when I first met you, it has been relentless. When you're working to that extent and you're checking emails that God knows what hour you're not sleeping, what's driving that is that because you want to succeed? Is it because you want to see change happen? What is driving you rather than going, you know, I'm taking my foot off the gas a bit, I'm going to pull back.

It's like in some respects, like in the working day, that's very measured and organized. And we try and get better and better at that and squeeze more and more in over the years. But then when I get home, it's sort of I've always been quite available. I'm not like I speak, you know, speak to my PA, you know, I've always been quite accessible. So I tend to get hit pretty hard when I'm home. Yeah. For a few hours, which can be okay and can be not okay, depending on if George is trying to have a conversation with you. Put your phone down. And that is the hard crack to stop because it's, you know, it's a bit like Tetris, you know what I mean? Like you kind of got all the, you know, you got a few in a row and you're just waiting for a four one to come, a four coming and it's sort of like, that just gets a load of crap out of your life and signed off.

And you like your job. So I missed the problem I have. I don't sometimes want to switch off. The kids go to bed and I think, oh, I can start writing that article or whatever I'm doing because I want to do it.

And then you're knackered. I think it's just trying to be a bit more restrained about it. But I tell you, like in lockdown as well, I started, I used to be in a band years ago. You're a great drummer, yeah. Well, I wouldn't say great, but I used to think I was great. You're good on you? I can probably fake that I look great. But now I mean, I was drummed for 13 years and then in lockdown, my mum gave me this letter from my nan that was so sweet. And I think I was the only person mentioned in her will to specifically get this piano. And she goes, I know Jamie's going to, you know, put it to good use. And I'm like, Mum, she's been dead like five years. Where's the bloody piano? And it's like, oh, it's the pub. They love it on a Friday night. They have a little sing along.

I'm like, yeah, it's your mum's last words. Like, where's the

piano? So they gave me the piano. And that was just before lockdown. And then in lockdown, I started tinkling and actually that's been my therapy as well. So I can't play very well, by the way. But I think, again, which I think is a quite an exciting thing, because the idea that you have to be great at everything, the contribute is absolutely rubbish. So I think really... It's about

the process as well. Like you're enjoying it.

And the intention and... Yeah. So I started writing chords and chord progressions. It would literally take me six weeks to get one set of chord progressions. And then I work with this guy called Toby Tripp, who is a credible musician, but he will arrange it all for me. And we'll put it together. And we've done all the music for the last two series. And I have to say, that has been definitely my therapy for the last two years. Obviously, it's a world I used to know, because I was in the band for years. But it's kind of gone beyond percussion, which is lovely.

My son just... Well, my husband's got a drum kit, which my son has discovered, should we say?

Yeah. Hallelujah.

I don't know.

I don't know. He had an electric one before. That's been discarded. We've now got the proper

drum kit. It's great. It's an amazing instrument, I have to say. And there's... I got some heroes, Ash Shone, who's the most amazing session drummer. And he's genius. And then you've probably... Have you heard of Yousef Days? No. So Tom Mission Yousef Days did this album in lockdown that's probably one of my favourite albums of the last. Oh, that's a chubba out. It is so good. And Yousef Days... I've never met him. Don't know him. But you know when you... This guy's at oozes. Yeah. Oozes. Soul and rhythm. Yeah. And Tom Mish, who I'm sure you do know, is like just this genius songwriter who does loads of stuff for other people. He does his own thing like he's just writing and writing. He's prolific. And I don't know how old he is, but I haven't seen him. He's chubba out. I have a feeling he is very young and ultra talented. But their sound is quite different as well. I really, I really, really like it. So... And I'll tell you what was really nice just to finish that story was... So writing some chord progressions on my nanny's piano fast forward two months. And I've got an orchestra in Abbey Road, studio two, which I know you would have

been to. Yes, it's the most glorious place on the planet. And recording

it in the same room that the Beatles did their thing and just the sound of an orchestra. Wow. That makes you... Because when we did together the TV series, by the way, just for context, myself and Channel 4 took a punt on it because it was still illegal to have people come in their house. So we had to do all the pre-production, which I know you know is like months. Right? And then we were legal by three days. Whoa. Three days. So I knew that like visually the food had to mean something. Half of the guests in the series were friends and family that sincerely I hadn't been with for the whole lot. That's so nice. And then the other half was something I'd never done for, which complete strangers and they were people. I put it out to social and we had to sort of had the hard job of picking. But essentially it was like teachers, nurses, midwives, volunteers, doctors, we had them all come around my house and I just got to feed them and get them drunk and have a great time and laugh and giggle. And so when we were putting, like I knew what the food was and I knew the crew were badass and I knew how we were going to film it. But then of course being involved in the music, it's like of course we need an orchestra like because only an orchestra can you make your hairs go like that. So yeah, hopefully like there's, I think it's in the middle of the Christmas special version of that is out, I think it'll be like mid December. Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's like it's really a precious show and hopefully it gives you some lovely ideas to cook some amazing things. But I guess more importantly kind of, yeah, well not more importantly, but hopefully it makes you feel,

I don't know. For me it's

cozy. Yeah, cozy, hopeful. I just, it's

gorgeous, gorgeous book. I love the aubergine. I'm going to do something from it tonight. I don't know what yet, but I'll, I'm going to work something out. I'm definitely doing some of the Christmas cocktails. 100% the cocktails in the book are beautiful. As ever, it's been so much for each other. We could probably talk all day if we want. We would, we would be, I would have eaten all the satsumas and quality street. We would have got the old Campari out, I'm sure at some point as well. But thank you so much for today, Jamie. So nice

to see

you. Bring back the great British dinner party. Yes, yes. I let you know I prefer a night in. So that is a great plan for me to be in my house, preferably in my slippers. And now I've got all these gorgeous recipes in Jamie's new book together. Memorable meals made easy. It's an O'Brena. Jamie, thank you for inviting me to your beautiful office. And Test Kitchen, Epic event space, whatever it is, it's wonderful. I had the best time. Jamie gave a bit of a nod to us needing to be more thoughtful about our farming system during that chat. We might just be picking up on that train of thought coincidentally with the next week's guests. And make sure you're back here for that by following the podcast for free on your favourite platform. Thank you so much to Jamie, to the producer and Ashkate at Rethink Audio. And you love a lot. I'm going to catch

you soon.