Ancient Wisdom, Modern World: Bret Speaks with Jonathan Pageau
DarkHorse Podcast
Is There a Way of Being?
"The mistake is on his looking for tools. The religious point of view are the mythical point of view in which we sit and we're capable of seeing that which is good," he says. "It's not a tool, right? It's actually a way of being."
Bret speaks with Jonathan Pageau a symbolic thinker, YouTuber, and carver of orthodox icons.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ
https://thesymbolicworld.com/
http://www.pageaucarvings.com/
https://twitter.com/PageauJonathan
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Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.
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(00:00) Introduction
(02:47) Bret on religions being “Literally false, metaphorically true” NOT “a mind virus”
(05:35) Jon’s definition of religion
(07:57) Bret – all scientists have faith, i.e. base assumptions, axioms
(11:15) Jon’s definition of faith, as levels of understanding
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(15:45) Bret’s article of faith in evolution
(17:56) Jon’s refinement: religion is the “patterning” of being
(20:07) Emergence is the jump between levels
(21:45) Jon’s emergence
(23:34) Adaptive evolution and group selection
(26:45) Why does cooperation exist?
(28:05) Survivability of individual or group or lineage
(32:05) Google Vs Catholicism
(33:26) Point of attention
(35:55) Evolution predicts the behavior of religions
(38:46) Richard Dawkins’ memes
(42:35) Self sacrifice
(45:56) Confessions in a congregation
(49:30) Jon on importance of self sacrifice
(53:44) Rapist gene
(59:24) Geneva Convention
(01:00:39) Flip the table on the genes
(01:01:49) Purpose of organisms
(01:03:13) Consciousness and purpose
(01:05:16) Purpose
(01:09:15) One homogenous religion
(01:13:55) Centralized digital identity and mark of the beast
(01:19:59) Genes are self replicating patterns
(01:23:19) Bret’s “obsession” with genes
(01:25:09) Starting from experience, not genes
(01:31:06) Consciousness is recognizing patterns
(01:33:35) Consciousness is good
(01:39:36) Technological systems are driving us into madness
(01:42:59) We need to upgrade our consciousness
(01:45:44) Wokeism and COVID measures
(01:48:49) Damned if we do…
(01:53:59) Religion has predicted this
(01:56:39) Gain of function research and fission power
(02:01:06) Aiming for a higher good
(02:02:33) The atheist’s advantage and heaven
(02:07:13) Descendants 10,000 years from now
(02:11:14) Building of an arc, remnants, and end of civilization
(02:18:56) Update religious texts?
(02:20:39) Tools and religion
(02:24:39) Is lineage the wrong level of abstraction?
(02:29:43) Follow-through tennis analogy
(02:35:57) Cynicism around religion
(02:40:23) Consciousness comes down on existence and forms identities
(02:44:17) Tetrapods and speciation
(02:48:40) Identity and purpose
(02:50:33) Wrap up
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