In this Marketing Over Coffee:

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2025 Marketing and AI Trends (Ann Says Oxford Comma is IN)

Go where the people are… but don’t build on somebody else’s land

Reddit Pro Trends and AMA Ads, Brand Safety

Set up a GA Exploration to track AI inbounds

8:02 – 8:46 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Gemini Real Time – Gemini fixes Chris’ furnace

Hot stuff out of CES!

Tom’s Guide shows off the Rollable Laptop

Engadget – LG recently appointed as its new Chief Being will.i.am Officer check out the new will.i.am-infused xboom speakers with built-in boom, boom and pow.

Smart Glasses, Segway E Bike

nVidia Digits

E-Paper portraits for art

MagSafe Bluetooth Controller for your phone

Switch 2?

Anker Beach Umbrella – no price yet

16:33 – 18:16 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Home Theater Update – Anker 4K SE, Sheetrock and Paint, Apple TV app vs. Paramount App?

Wicked

Klipsch One and Fives

Bone Conduction Headphones

Elliptical Machine

Sign up for the text line: 1-617-812-5494

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Transcript

John Wall – 00:00

Today’s episode is brought to you by NetSuite and Wix Studio.

Speaker 2 – 00:10

This is Marketing Over Coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.

John Wall – 00:17

Good morning. Welcome to Marketing Over Coffee. I’m John Wall.

Christopher S. Penn – 00:20

I’m Christopher Penn.

John Wall – 00:22

And we are back for the new year 2025. All kinds of stuff. Hopefully, you had a great vacation. We took some time off. I had some interviews that we rolled. Hopefully, you enjoyed the stuff from both Mike Gerholt and the story of Mobley with Eric Lindros. But we are back in the office, and now normally there’s not a lot of news because we’ve been down for two weeks, but we have CES, which has a bunch of crazy devices and interesting stuff that we’ll talk about. And actually, Chris, we haven’t had a chance to talk with you in almost a month here, so we need to get brought up to speed with everything that’s going on. On the lead off I had was you released your 2025 marketing and AI trends.

John Wall – 00:55

I’ll have a link to that in the show notes so people can check that out. But that was just kind of running like crazy over the past few weeks. So what surprised you out of that?

Christopher S. Penn – 01:04

The highlights about that were that we took the way we built it was different. Instead of navel-gazing, we took the last 90 days of conversations from Reddit, from the SEO forum and content marketing subreddit, social media subreddit, the influencer marketing subreddit, and mind. I think it was close to 800,000 words from what real people are saying. And then used Google Gemini to extract out three sets of trends. The obvious stuff that, like, you know, hey, AI is going to be a thing, and, you know, the usual be more human in your content. That’s, that’s, you know, the blatantly obvious stuff and like progressively more and more obscure stuff. And the way that we formatted the trends was we did it with the three what’s—what is the trend? So what, like why should you care about it?

Christopher S. Penn – 01:46

And then now what should you do about it? So, it’s ten trends per section in these three sections for these five, six different areas. So it’s like a 90-page guide. It’s not small, but it’s based in reality as opposed to navel-gazing. And it is from the feedback we’ve gotten about it has been that it’s been super useful. It’s available for free, there’s no cost for it. You can pick it up over on the Trust Insights website.

John Wall – 02:11

Yeah, and one thing that I love about that is because it was grabbed from everything out there. Like there’s contradictory stuff in there. You know, there’s people saying, hey, this is going to be a trend. And then ten later you see like this is going to die. And it’s all interesting feedback. It gives you a much better understanding of what’s going on. I never thought about that. How, you know, we get all this stuff from the talking heads and they’re basically promoting whatever they’re trying to sell this year. You know, they want to make it hot. Having the opportunity to look at something from both sides is a lot more valuable and kind of gives you an idea of what the heck’s going on.

Christopher S. Penn – 02:39

Yeah, totally. And with a lot of the trends too, you know, the big stuff isn’t going to change because it’s stuff that the foundations you just—but it’s really interesting. It doesn’t take into account all the crazy things that have happened like super lately, like in the last 48 hours lately, like Meta saying, “Hey, we’re just throwing fact-checking out the window and we’re just going to let people self-moderate social media.” Like that seems like a bad idea.

John Wall – 03:08

You talk about a dumpster fire. That is just, I mean, because think about that. You’ve got—the president is basically behind a different social network. He has a competitor that’s rising to power in the government here. And then unfortunately, based on everything Facebook has done over the past decade, there’s nobody that’s going to be like, oh, the government’s treating Facebook unfairly. Like that’s just not going to happen. Right. People, if they get told to close shop and have the stock drop to zero, nobody’s going to stand up for them. I mean, it’s not like they’ve done anything that couldn’t be done on any other social network. So yeah, I don’t know, that just kind of blows my mind, but it’s also beyond the scope of the stuff that we kick around.

Christopher S. Penn – 03:47

It is, but think about that. There’s two trends that we talk about all the time in content marketing. There is go where the people are.

John Wall – 03:54

Right.

Christopher S. Penn – 03:54

Market where the people are, and then there’s don’t build on rented land. And the two of those things are contradictory. Kind of what you’re saying about the different transit ports, right? So you have these two different principles of marketing. Which one do you do? And the answer is both. You’ve got to put up billboard content, you know, to attract attention on these social networks, and then you’ve got to have owned property. You’ve got to have your own newsletter, your own podcast, your own outlets, and your own domain that you control. You can’t pick one or the other. You’ve got to do both. So for marketers for this year, for 2025, one of the big things is you have to basically do both at the same time.

Christopher S. Penn – 04:33

You’ve got to find the resources and the tools and the AI to let you do both, because you can’t pick just one.

John Wall – 04:39

Yeah, that’s a great point. The days of picking one platform and saying, hey, I’m going to be able to kill it over here and become an influencer and be able to just generate traffic organically or even—I don’t know—some of the stuff I’ve seen, people not being able to get the momentum even when they throw ad money behind it, you know, just not being able to do it. So, yeah, that’s, that’s also hot and interesting, the idea of running both. I also have to give a shout out. Ann Handley had her list of “in n out” talking about trends. She had the Oxford comma on the enlist, and I have to say, don’t call it a comeback. The Oxford comma’s always been on the in list, but that’s just Oxford commas.

Christopher S. Penn – 05:14

And wins or nots.

John Wall – 05:17

Stable and always behaving properly. I did have to jump on Reddit. Whoever thought that Reddit would not be the dumpster fire? And then on top of that, it’s CS them announcing brand safety at Reddit, which is like, I see. Yes, you’re like straight up laughing. But no, this is true. They introduced that. They have some brand safety stuff going on. They have the Reddit pro trends where you can keep track of what’s going on with your ads, and they had some new programs with AMA specifically to be able to promote your AMAs, which is brilliant because that’s the true gold for Reddit. That’s the one place where people actually, even the general public, like, believes what goes on there. You know, there’s so much fighting and ridiculousness over there.

John Wall – 05:54

But yeah, here we are, Reddit leading brand safety this week, which is the headline we never thought we’d have in analytics for marketers. Just this morning, this is hot stuff. We had somebody asking about figuring out where search traffic was coming in via AI models and LLM, and you have got some breakthrough on that. What’s going on there?

Christopher S. Penn – 06:14

Yeah, so there’s a way in Google Analytics to set up an exploration in the Explore hub to track ChatGPT perplexity and Google Gemini and it’s real straightforward. You’re basically looking for either page refer or source medium for those three domains. So if you know how to set up segments and stuff in GA4, you can do that. And then you basically say, okay, what landing page did they arrive on and how many of them was it? And it’s all session scope stuff. There’s a new PDF, it’s on the Trust Insights website. It’s free. There’s no form to fill out, nothing to—no information to give where through it step by step with screenshots. So if you’re interested in setting up that dashboard to monitor what’s going on with AI-enabled search and your website, it’s a super easy way to get.

Christopher S. Penn – 06:55

It’ll take you, I mean, if you know GA4 well, it’ll take you like two minutes to set it up. Just do some clicking around in the interface. If you don’t know GA4 well, it’ll take you like maybe ten or 15 minutes. It’s not complex, but it will tell you exactly what’s going on with where your traffic is coming from and then what pages they’re landing on. We can’t tell, and you’ll never be able to tell what they were searching for because in a tool like ChatGPT, it could be midway through a conversation that, you know, ChatGPT mentions you and you know your search term, your search query would be like 48 paragraphs of text. That’s not going to help, but it will tell you what page they landed on.

John Wall – 07:33

That’s cool. Okay. And yeah, if you know, we’re talking about all the time, but if you’re new to the show, Analytics for Marketers is a Slack group. It’s free and a bunch of the community hangs out over there and a bunch of our clients too. So we’re always talking about best ways to do things. And the key with that is if you’re in there, you get first access to this stuff that Chris publishes. That’s where it drops first, and we follow up here. We’ll have links to that in the show notes, so you can check that out. Yeah, we got CES is going on this week, all the crazy consumer electronics stuff. We want to give you the latest on that and talk about Gemini real-time, but before we do, we just have to take a second.

John Wall – 08:03

We want to thank Wix Studio for their support of Marketing Over Coffee digital marketers. This one’s for you. I’ve got 30 seconds to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. So here are a few things you can do in 30 seconds or less when you manage projects on Wix Studio: work in sync with your team one canvas, reuse templates, widgets, and sections across sites, create a client kit for seamless handovers, and leverage best-in-class SEO defaults across all your WIX sites. Time’s up. If the list keeps going, step into Wix Studio to see more. Head on over to wixstudio.com to check it out, and we thank them for their support of the show. We did have to catch up.

John Wall – 08:48

You had said there’s a bunch of stuff with Gemini Real Time that was announced at the end of last month. So what’s going on there?

Christopher S. Penn – 08:53

Oh, it’s been crazy in the AI world. So DeepSeek, the Chinese model, came out at the end of December and it is industry-leading. It’s state of the art, and it’s open model, which means you can download it if you have a machine big enough to run it because it’s a gigantic model. But Google Gemini really came out swinging at the end of December with Real Time API. And what this allows you to do is in Gemini Flash 2.0, you can take your desktop computer, your laptop, or your an iPad, which is how I’ve been using it. Turn on Gemini Streaming API and it will access either the screen like screen sharing, the microphone, or the camera and it will go live and you talk to Gemini as you’re holding up the iPad. So a real simple example, I tested this out.

Christopher S. Penn – 09:40

I took my furnace, I took all the manuals that I have for my furnace, laid them out on the basement floor. I just ran the iPad over them and said, “Hey, just take a look at what I own, what my furnace is, and just tell me what all the pieces are,” making sure that we’re priming the model. It says, “Oh, it’s this, this.” And then I move it up. I just hold up the iPad and say and I point on, you know, on in front of the camera, “This part here is leaking. What is it? Why is it leaking and should I be concerned?” And it said, “That’s just an overflow valve. Just tighten it, you know, hand tighten it and it’ll be fine. You don’t need to call a plumber or anything like that.”

Christopher S. Penn – 10:11

And I was like, “This is really cool that I can have Real Time AI in the real world telling me what to do and chat.” GPT immediately after came out with Real Time camera in their advanced voice mode. So you could have on your phone, you know, you’re in the grocery store, he’s like, “Hey, I’m making chicken tikka masala. Here’s what’s my grocery cart. What am I forgetting?” And it will tell you like, “Oh, I don’t see this.” So we’re seeing AI come into the real world through these real-time APIs, and the applications for marketers are going to be endless. I’m getting ready to head out to Edmonton, Alberta in just a little over a month to do some keynote at a destination marketing event, the Tourism Industry Association of Alberta.

Christopher S. Penn – 10:58

And one of the things I’m going to show off is how a clever brand could build a real-time integration with Gemini to help you customize, you know, like live sightseeing. So you would say, like, “Hey, I’m really interested in, you know, first nations stuff. Here’s where I am.” And I’ll say, “Okay, turn your right, go 50 meters.” And that’s, you know, there’s this tourist attraction here, or hey, here’s what happened. You know, what we know about, you know, historical knowledge about what happened in this area. You know, as you’re doing like live custom tourism.

John Wall – 11:29

That’s very cool. Yeah, a bunch of stuff at CS on smart glasses, that was one of the things, and they’re saying, you know, the price is starting to come down quickly, so that will patch right into that being able to walk around and have AI talk to you and give you feedback that you need. So, yeah, a bunch of stuff to watch there. That’s going to be really interesting to see where that goes. Okay, other stuff I had in the list, there were two sets of coverage if you want to go dig in for yourself. On CES, Tom’s Guide is doing real-time streaming and then Engadget is the other one. That’s huge.

John Wall – 11:56

Tom’s Guide had a crazy video of a laptop with what they’re calling a rollable screen where you open—you know, you flip the laptop open like a regular laptop, but then you hit a button and it actually extends upward like a reverse window shade and it goes up like twice as big as the normal screen. So that’s something random and cool I had never expected to see. So you can check that out. Some other random stuff and gadget. LG has appointed Will. “I am the chief being Will, I am officer.” He worked with them on a bunch of speakers and soundbars and stuff. So you can check out the audio stuff there. Yeah, smart glasses. Segway introduced a blazingly fast e-bike and I didn’t even know that they were in that space.

John Wall – 12:39

But I dug in a little bit more and there was all kinds of stuff. They actually have been doing dirt bikes and, you know, regular scooters and commuter e-bikes and all that kind of stuff. So I had missed the boat on that. I was always considering the mall security Segway and, you know, failed to notice that they had moved on to the rest of the stuff there. I don’t know. Do you see yourself on any kind of e-vehicle besides the car? Of course, possibly.

Christopher S. Penn – 13:04

I mean, so Ego Battery has their little, you know, dirt bike scooter and things that I think is, you know, it’s 2,400 dollars, so it’s not cheap, but it’s one of those things like that’s actually pretty handy. It goes up like 35 miles an hour. So it’s something you could use locally. Like if I wanted to run to the grocery store, I can take all back roads. It has more than enough range to go the two miles to the grocery store and back. I could see if you add a little like utility cart on the back, that would be, that’d be pretty terrific. I did see some other really weird stuff at CES too.

Christopher S. Penn – 13:33

But my favorite power brand, Anker, announced a solar-powered beach umbrella that has solar panels you plug into a charging station so when you’re at the beach you can keep your charging station filled. Roborock announced a robot vacuum that has a retractable arm that can pick things up and move them out of the way of the vacuum, which is interesting. But the big thing that made a lot of news in the AI world is Nvidia announced a 3,000 dollar supercomputer called Digits. It’s about the size of a Mac Mini and it has 128 gigabytes of shared memory in its own operating system. That will allow you to run most models, most large language models that are open models, which is nuts.

Christopher S. Penn – 14:23

The same level of shared memory in a MacBook Pro M4 or, you know, M4 Max will cost you about six grand. So this thing, it’s a dedicated machine, but I could definitely see these being deployable for small and mid-sized businesses that want to have AI under their control. In your office, you could run something like Meta’s Llama 3.1 on this. Not fast, but it would run, but it would be under your control. And so that has got a lot of the people in the AI world really buzzing and go, “Huh, that’s affordable,” because if you were to build that yourself out of like Nvidia H1 hundreds, you would need a massive array and it would cost you about 30 grand. So this is a pretty big deal.

John Wall – 15:07

All right. Of course, a bunch of chips announced and TVs, a bunch of stuff going on there as fast as even I saw a 500 megahertz refresh TV, which was kind of crazy. And yeah, everybody getting excited about that as we reach Peak TV season one, interesting one. E-paper portraits for art. So up to a 30-inch canvas that you could use to display fine art on your own walls, but using e-paper instead of a backlit screen. This is not the year for that yet. It seems like it’s still too expensive and too niche, but something that could happen in the future. We’ll keep an eye on that one and gaming a bunch of stuff interesting. MagSafe Bluetooth controller for iPhone.

John Wall – 15:46

So the idea is you’ve got a full kind of featured game controller that has a panel that just locks to the back of your phone and it’s Bluetooth, so there’s no cables or anything. It just has to click on the back and you can go, “That was pretty cool.” I’ve got a link to that in the show notes. Nintendo Switch 2 is rumored and has been rumored for a while and it’s kind of bizarre. There’s some vendors at the show that are showing off prototypes, but Nintendo has not announced anything. So then it’s kind of like, well, is this a stealth campaign of some kind, or are these guys all going to get sued by Nintendo over the coming week? We’ll see which way that goes, but that platform overdue for an update.

John Wall – 16:23

I think they need to have something for this Christmas season, so we will see where that goes. All right, I’ve got a bunch of stuff on home theater because I actually played around with a bunch of stuff over the holidays. But before we get to that, we just want to thank NetSuite for their support of Marketing Over Coffee. Marketing Over Coffee listeners are not strangers to disruption. Whether it’s markets, technology, inflation, there is no crystal ball, but our listeners and clients have learned that if you want to prepare for growth, go with NetSuite by Oracle. You can waste your time stringing together small business solutions, or you can prepare your organization for growth. Over 41,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle.

John Wall – 17:01

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John Wall – 17:42

You can spend your time concentrating on what’s growing the business, not managing stuff on the back end. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and sees your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Coffee. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com Coffee again. Netsuite.com coffee—netsuite.com/coffee—and we thank them for their support of the show. Yeah, so home theater. I did upgrade my projector to the Anker 4K SE, and the other crazy thing was we actually gutted the living room and I sheetrocked and put up a new screen and it has just been unbelievable. It is so good. It is crazy.

John Wall – 18:32

And I would easily recommend that to anybody over buying a screen if you’re doing this in your house. So I’ll have a post for that. I have that over on my own blog. I have a long-running post that I just continue to update. So I’ll have a link to that over there. Another interesting thing too, this was something that I picked up on threads. The idea that for anybody on Apple TV, you know you have a bunch of apps, right? You’ve got the Apple TV app and Paramount and Netflix and all the other apps, but there’s one thing when you go into the Apple TV app in there, you can have channels and some of the service streaming services are in there. You can get to Paramount from there and Amazon and Disney, you can’t get to Netflix.

John Wall – 19:13

But then the thing that I had heard was when you do it that way, somehow you’re taking advantage of Apple storage and more of its stuff cached on Apple servers. So like if you watch all the Star Trek stuff on Paramount, it actually looks better watching it through the Apple app, which I sounded insane to me, but I tried it out and took it for a spin and it definitely worked. And the one that really got me was watching Amazon stuff through there because like I normally don’t even bother to watch the Amazon app on Apple TV because some of this stuff is so low quality and streaming just seems to be such a problem over there. But watching it through the Apple TV app, it was, it looked fine, everything looked great and the sound was interesting.

John Wall – 19:54

So yeah, I’ve been trying to dig around to see if I can find out. Obviously, nobody publishes anything on that and it is a little weird. I would imagine Apple must get more stats on what’s being watched. So that would probably explain why Netflix doesn’t want to have anything to do with that.

Christopher S. Penn – 20:07

I’m not surprised by Netflix because also I would imagine a lot of the ad-supported versions, there’s—there are probably issues with other providers nuking your ads, which could be an issue. I’ve been playing with Serviio, which is an open-source media server that runs on your laptop and it connects to your local whatever’s on your hard drive or external drives. So I’ve had that set up with my external media hard drive and, you know, anywhere in the house, on my phone, my app, my iPad, whatever I can watch and stream from my computer, which, you know, it’s not—it doesn’t have. You can integrate like the different services, but I just use it for local stuff because the stuff that I have stored on my hard drives is all, you know, 4K UHD. So it’s a very nice experience.

Christopher S. Penn – 20:49

And you know, it’s free, which is even better.

John Wall – 20:51

Yeah, I know that’s definitely the leader in the space because I’ve kicked that around before. Thinking about setting up a media server in the house just to be able to like—because yeah, I have like all these hard drives lying around with hundreds of movies on them that just never get pulled out. So yeah, I’ll throw a link to that in the show notes. And then I did catch Wicked, which was my big deal since they put it available for streaming for New Year’s. Watching that in the new setup was fantastic. And then update on audio.

John Wall – 21:16

I had talked about how the fact that I threw out the Amazon smart speakers because I was just sick and tired of them not, you know, playing in stereo and the subwoofer not coming online and all that, and replaced it with Klipsch, the Fives, which are powered bookshelf speakers. And man, the sound is amazing. That has totally turned on the tunes in my kitchen, living room, and that has been a fantastic move. So I’m excited about that. I’ve been running that also. I wanted to throw out to anybody, if you have access to BJ’s, the warehouse club, they have Klipsch, the one which is a smaller single Bluetooth speaker, you know, if you want something to use in a workspace or whatever. But that normally runs for 250 dollars. They have it marked down to 99 bucks post-holiday.

John Wall – 22:00

And there were only like three left in the store near me, but that was just like such a massive deal. I could see myself getting a beating here at home for bringing home more audio equipment. But, you know, at that price, I was kind of like, you could—it can be flipped on eBay. You can buy those at 99 dollars. You can easily get at least 150 bucks, if not more on eBay if you’re willing to do that. That’s not enough margin for the shipping and the headache as far as I’m concerned, but it is for real on Gear Watch.

Christopher S. Penn – 22:29

On our side, we upgraded our elliptical to the Nice Day elliptical, which is, you know, your usual Chinese brand. On Amazon for 799 dollars, it’s really nice. Like, it’s nicer than the Soul E25 that we replaced it with. It’s about half of the weight, just as stable, and unlike the Soul, it is silent. So either I or my wife, whatever, can—can work out and not like wake the house with all the damn noise.

John Wall – 22:53

Yeah, right. You’re saying that this new one is magnetic. So there—it’s not, because so many of these are friction-based. That’s why you get all that insane noise.

Christopher S. Penn – 23:00

Exactly. So it’s a—it’s got a magnetic flywheel instead. And the crazy part is that because it’s—it’s magnetic, it basically has its own little generator inside. You don’t need to plug it in. Like, you can move it anywhere you want and it’s—it’s super cool. The other thing on the gear watch is my kid bought this Chinese knockoff bone conduction headset with, you know, some—the—the name of the company is like some random combination of, you know, vowels and consonants as you see on Amazon. And he got it after Christmas. I tested it. The audio quality is better than the AfterShokz. I was like, “What the hell is going on here?” The highs are clearer than the AfterShokz. It’s got a slightly better bass in them and it’s 26 bucks compared to the AfterShokz which are like 90 to 100.

Christopher S. Penn – 23:46

I’m like, this is concerning that it’s this good.

John Wall – 23:49

Yeah, that’s crazy. Well, you’ll have to throw me a link to that. I’ll put that in the show notes because yeah, at that price point, I’m willing to just buy a set to mess around with them. You know, we can just throw them to anybody. Yeah. So over holiday I did have a chance. I was down in New York City and got to go to the Peloton New York studios over at Hudson Yards. I passed that. So I had to send a photo over to Ginny and Katie about that as they are die-hard Peloton users. But that is so cool that thing doesn’t have to get plugged in. I may have to jump on that because I have had—it’s insane. I am so 80s man. Here I have my NordicTrack cross-country ski machine which like nobody even makes those. It’s like—

John Wall – 24:26

So I might as well wear MC Hammer pants when I’m on the thing because it’s just so ridiculous and it’s—and just what you said it is so noisy. I have to use it when nobody’s around because it literally—and I’m on the second floor so it’s like shaking the whole house. So yeah, I gotta check that out too. All right, that’s cool. Yeah, we got a bunch of stuff. We’ve got travel coming up. You’d mentioned you’re heading up to Canada. How about other trips or anything else hot right now that you’ve got to get out there?

Christopher S. Penn – 24:53

Social Media Marketing World. So gonna be—that’s going to be coming up at the end of March, early April, working on some. I’ll be at SMPS doing a workshop in LA, assuming that LA is not a cinder by the time I get there because they’re having really bad wildfires in and near the city itself, which is nuts. So yeah, this travel season is going to be highly irregular and—and we’re going to see how this turns out. Not because, you know, events are still happening and booking, but just all the craziness in the actual real world is—is making travel a big old question mark. So we shall see how this goes.

John Wall – 25:31

All right, that sounds good. Again, links in the show notes for everything. You can sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee newsletter at 617-812-5494. But that’s going to do it for this week. So until next week, enjoy the coffee.

Christopher S. Penn – 25:43

Enjoy the coffee.

Speaker 2 – 25:44

You’ve been listening to Marketing Over Coffee. Christopher Penn blogs at christopherspenn.com. Read more from John J. Wall at jw5150.com. The Marketing Over Coffee theme song is called Melo G by Funkmasters, and you can find it at Music Alley from Mevio or follow the link in our show notes.

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