How to Get to Nirvana?

I think in the case of you're saying the CEO self actually does not exist, then to the extent that we construct a conception of that, we're constructing an illusion. I probably talked about it that way. It wouldn't surprise me. But but I mean, I think a lot of people would find it a pretty subtle distinction between construction and illusion. So another thing I say that's maybe not quite so psychological in the sense of like, empirical psychology is to say, well, you could render it in a sort of like existentialist way. You could say it's an authentic mode of being that isn't just a matter of traits you can specify and descriptive psychological terms. Okay.