I think that, ah, any human striving depends on this sense of pride. If you didn't want to be recognized as a great pianist or writer then you probably wouldn't strive for excellence. So all of us want the attention and that comes with great human achievement and excellence. And so i don't think you could have excellence if you didn't have the striving for more. I mean, in a way, it's kind of morally neutral. It doesn't fall within this economic calculus that i think you rightly associate, in many respects, with classical liberalism.
Freddie Sayers meets Francis Fukuyama.
Francis Fukuyama is a political scientist and public intellectual, most famous for his 1992 book The End of History and the Last Man which has helped to define how we understand contemporary history. His new book is called Liberalism and its Discontents.
Freddie Sayers spoke to Dr. Fukuyama about the war in Ukraine, current trends in Western democracy, and how liberalism can better understand aspects of the human condition it has historically neglected.
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