Maybe to, to double down on that and ask you one final question here, Robin. On one hand, how do we ensure that freedom of mobility? On the other hand, when we went through all those negative externalities of moving around, is the, is the reality for climate change or any of those other reasons that, that we just need to be moving around a whole lot less here in the 21st century?

I want to say we need to move less by car because I want to open up, ideally, I do think ideally, and I think we learned this a little bit in the pandemic, ideally you would be able to get to all of your essential needs and essential services without having to get in the car. Like, wouldn't that be great? School, job, food shopping, a doctor, a dentist without getting a car? Like, that would be, that would be a dream. But in the meanwhile, and I think, I think building, we have to build new housing and how we build that and where we build that, we can really make that happen for more people. And I think people do in their want to have that. But in the meantime, while we fix our infrastructure, I think we need to double down on this creating safe, a network of safe streets and roads for this micro mobility. One last piece, I was on a bicycle in Spain on this highway. It was a highway going from a really rural area into a city. And what I was so struck by was it was a two lane, two lane road as in one way, each way and cars could pass. And they were going 100 kilometers an hour, so like 60 miles an hour. And I was on my bike. It had a really wide breakdown lane that was wide, flat, and a different color. And if you had a rumble strip between those two, that would say expect to see micro mobility in this, you know, an e-bike. I'm in my, I've got my own lane. If you're going to come over here, you're going to notice through this rumble strip. You know that that's your part is to stay here and my part is to stay here. I think all these rural areas where the car passes you once every 10 minutes, why should I not feel safe letting my 12 year old ride to school in that? Why? We had these breakdown lanes. And when you pass a bike, slow down and give them a wide berth, that you're not going to pass that many, and they should be able to use the road safely. Like we had these roads, we have the rights of way, they're all there. We don't have to go make amazingly fancy bike lanes every place. We could get the right of way that we have and the room that we have and just make it clear. This is not some sloping degraded crummy breakdown lane. This is a flat lake down lane that we're going to multi-purpose and it will be a spot for people to go safely.

Robin, it's been so great having you on the podcast today. Thank you for making the time for us.

It was a pleasure and it was nice to see your face while we talked.

You know, we didn't even discuss the fact that Robin has a book that's been out for a few years called Piers Inc. How People and Platforms are inventing the collaborative economy and reinventing capitalism. I'll plug it here and recommend that you check it out. That is it for today though. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to the SHIFT podcast at Apple Stitcher Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again to Robin for the time and insight. Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.