Even the way you are framing the character and his family, you are proving at what makes it such a subtle piece of television, the rich layers of succession. I mean, Luke and Roy, would you agree? He's both timeless, Shakespearean, King Leia, and completely of the present tense,

the perfect symbol of our current reality slash darkness. He is our currently and the key thing is, unlike Trump, unlike Murdoch, unlike Conrad Black, unlike Redstone, he is a self made man. He came from nothing. So he's established. And that's a much better scenario. And therefore, potentially, there's more dramatic value in that. You see these mistakes happening in time and time again, in families. And you see the inevitability of it. Because once you go down a particular road and it's a road of success, it's very hard to back off. And that's what Logan, in a way, ironically suffers from.

It's like the Larkin poem, they fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had and add some extra just for you. Emily van de Virth wrote in Vox, we exist in a world full of men who believed that if they shout something loudly enough, it's true. And who take extreme offense to the idea that maybe they are wrong, no matter how gently we break it to them. How apt is that phrase in terms of describing Logan? I think it's true. You know, he's a man

who is not just in terms of himself, but in terms of what he represents, these men are reaching their cell by date. It's coming very, very quickly. And of course, this present COVID crisis is pointing that up very, very sharply. The whole male prerogative just doesn't work. It hasn't worked for some time. And I think that it's a dying breed. We are a dying breed. And we have to accept it. You know, for centuries we've screwed it up. And it really is now over to the women. But the problem for the women is that what they've inherited from the men, they've got so much to sort out as well. And you see that in the relationship with his favourite child, which is Schiff, you know, and Siobhan is some of the deeply loves he brings her on board. And he said, of course, it has to be secret to now. Constantly, he's throwing out these little tests of character. That's what people don't quite realize about Logan. He's constantly challenging his children to say, what are you going to come up with? What are you going to

do?