What Did Roland Fryer's Incentive Experiments Show?

Joe Liemandt is a legend in the technology world. Starting in the 1990s, he built a multi-billion dollar software empire, before quietly stepping out of the public spotlight for 20 years. Now, he’s back to reveal his next breakthrough: new schools that can 10X learning in two hours a day with AI and the right incentives. What were the discoveries that led him here? Why is he confident he can save American education? And how is he planning to get this to a billion kids worldwide?

Join us for a special episode with one of the great entrepreneurs of the digital era. In 1989, Joe Liemandt dropped out of Stanford to found Trilogy, which he describes as “the first AI product to sell a billion dollars.” He also pioneered Trilogy University — the grueling boot camp that Google and Facebook later copied — and famously outcompeted Microsoft for talent, drawing thousands of top engineers to Austin. On top of that, he added a software acquisition firm, ESW Capital, and scaled it to massive success. Today, he’s the principal of Alpha School, a revolutionary new education model that already has its students performing in the top one percent nationwide.

We begin with the origins of Trilogy, from building “configurators” and the earliest AI systems to creating its iconic, ultra-competitive culture. Then, we break down the acquisition strategy that turned ESW Capital into a massive success, before turning to Joe’s new mission: saving American education. Before joining Alpha, he went deep into the science of learning, notably backing Harvard economist Roland Fryer’s inner city research. Fryer experimented with paying teachers, parents, and students for good results — the findings shocked the education world and became foundational for much of Joe’s work. Learn how the right incentives combined with the best in AI have Alpha’s third and fourth-graders outperforming the average high-school graduate. Plus, we explore Joe’s ambitious vision for the future and how school choice can help get this model into classrooms nationwide. The U.S. has spent trillions on K-12 with little or nothing to show; meanwhile, China and other advanced economies have raced far ahead in education performance. If Joe succeeds, he will fundamentally transform education, and the future of our republic, and that’s something to get excited about.

00:00 Episode intro

01:53 Stanford dropout/origins of Trilogy

06:05 Trilogy University

09:08 Roland Fryer & paying kids for good grades

12:07 Why Joe is betting $1B on education

16:55 Kids must love school more than vacation

24:45 “The most controversial thing I’ll say today”

31:56 Why Alpha pays kids for top scores

36:52 Will this work for low-income kids?

42:57 Battle over AI & school choice

46:58 How should we teach history?

51:20 Joe’s grand vision for the future

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