The Bearish Picture of Shipping Stocks

Ramon: Zim Integrated is not quite a secular growth story at play here. They're just more of a commodity play based on freight rates, and there isn't really a reason to believe that they'll become more profitable or be able to change their profit picture. If things stay the way it is, actually, I think things will get worse and worse because they'll just keep accumulating more and more debt as time goes on.