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DNCO just turned 20, and founder Joy Nazzari is not done yet. In this episode of The Creative Boom Podcast, Joy joins Katy to talk honestly about building a place brand studio from two slightly rebellious thirty-somethings with no clients, to a 33-strong team working on cities and even a whole US state.

Joy shares why she and co-founder Ben walked out of permanent jobs with nothing lined up, how "never doing shit work" became a founding principle, and why saying no early on shaped the kind of clients they attract today. She also opens up about buying Ben out, staying friends, and why founders should be allowed to leave without drama.

The conversation delves into the realities of running a studio after the pandemic. Joy talks about the economics no one wants to touch publicly. Productivity, hybrid working, the way slowed pace quietly kills profit, and why getting people in a room together still matters more than anyone wants to admit.

She also reflects on what it means to be a tall American non-designer leading a London agency, the label "female-founded", and how it lands in different rooms, including very male, sports-led organisations. There is an honest chat about ageing as a woman in a visual industry, being "an older woman" in the room, and the subtle ways respect and perception can shift.

We get into family, identity and what really keeps her going. Joy talks candidly about growing up in California with a father whose career was destroyed by alcoholism, how that experience turned financial security into a core driver, and why she has built a career around helping people feel like they belong in places.

Katy and Joy also compare notes on menopause, confidence, video, and the strange process of becoming more visible just as your face starts to change. They talk about raising children, how different generations see work and politics, why debate and nuance matter, and how to keep reading beyond your own bubble.

Towards the end, Joy shares the advice she would give her 30-year-old self. Chill out and don't overreact. Delegate sooner. Let designers hear clients unfiltered. Guard relationships and stay in touch with people who back your work. Underneath it all, she admits that for all the big ideas about cities, identity and belonging, the real engine has always been simple: keep the people you love safe and secure, and keep your brain switched on for as long as you can.

A big, honest chat about work, power, ageing, politics, money, motherhood and why many of us build studios in the first place.