We look back at boris johnson's time as prime minister. Jonathan, how could we balance the need to move away from popularism while properly addressing the deep concerns that it seems to speak to? I do think there has to be. The only way to blunt ism of the kind i was describing, is for the issues that drive people towards it, and thei grievances, or the needs rather, that drive people toward it to be addressed. People have to feel that the democratic system delivers for them. If not politicians who are either contemptuous of democracy, as donald tramp was, or who play fast and loose with democratic norms, those people will flourish. And so