What's the Story of Black America From 19 65 to Now?

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There's a kind of idea that if only people knew how bad things really were, there would be spurred to action. And so therefore, the worse we managed to portray things is being the more progress toward equality we're going to get. But anybody who thinks that the story of black america from 19 65 until now is not dazzlingly positive in almost all regards isn't paying attention. People like that have developed a sense of their purpose in life as being this kind of victim. It's almost a comfort zone in being the cassandra. That works for them to such an extent that it's independent of original conditions. I'm not patting myself on the back, but there's a

John McWhorter is an author, a member of the Persuasion Board of Advisors, a Columbia University linguist, and a columnist for The New York Times. His latest book, Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America, argues that we must understand wokeness, quite literally, as a religion.

In this week’s conversation, John McWhorter and Yascha Mounk discuss the nature of today’s social progressivism, whether it constitutes a religion, and how we can actually help to reduce racial disparities in the United States.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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