Elias Torres has been building AI systems since 1999, from chatbots at IBM to co-founding Drift and now Agency. He believes businesses are caught in an expectation mismatch—demanding AI while rejecting it due to imperfection anxiety. Drawing from his experience scaling HubSpot, Elias explains why human-led customer experience doesn’t scale and how Agency is building AI-first solutions that work autonomously. His contrarian approach focuses on the back-end customer experience rather than front-end AI SDRs, aiming to “deprogram the entire business world” from inefficient human-dependent processes.

Hosted by: Sonya Huang and Pat Grady, Sequoia Capital

Mentioned in the episode:

Lookery: David Cancel’s first startup that Elias joined after IBM; shut down in 2009
Performable: Elias and David’s second startup, acquired by HubSpot in 2011
Drift: Elias and David Cancel’s third startup, merged with Salesloft in 2024
Klaviyo: B2C CRM company started by Andrew Bialecki after working with Elias at HubSpot
Secret: Short-lived anonymous messaging app that inspired one of Drift’s early iterations
Tatajuba: Kitesurfing destination in Jericoacoara, Brazil where Elias (briefly) considered retirement

00:00 Introduction 01:50 AI and Customer Expectations 03:36 Managing Emails with AI 07:21 Elias' Personal Journey 11:27 Early Career 14:28 Joining HubSpot and Scaling Challenges 16:31 Hiring Exceptional Talent 18:53 Founding Drift 20:27 Pivoting to Success with Drift 21:41 Drift's Chatbot Innovation 22:09 Challenges and Limitations of Drift 22:37 The Struggle with Customer Knowledge 23:09 Scaling Challenges and Lessons Learned 25:58 Rediscovering Purpose Post-Drift 28:55 The Birth of Agency 29:42 AI's Role in Customer Experience 35:13 Building a Sustainable Business Model 37:06 The Vision for Agency 38:22 Challenges and Opportunities with AI 41:22 Deprogramming and Embracing Change 43:23 Optimism for the AI Future 44:15 Closing Thoughts

475: Vice & Virtue — Vainglory

The BEMA Podcast

Social Media as Fertile Soil for Vainglory

The AI-powered Podcast Player