The Brainy Business Podcast Interview With Molina Palmer

You’ve heard him before discussing the “Science of Cool” in 2021, and I’m thrilled to say that Dr. Troy Campbell is back. And, because it’s fun to keep things interesting, Troy and I are flipping the script in today’s episode. 

What does that mean?

Troy is here to showcase his Define & Apply Framework, something he does with clients in his role as Chief Scientist at On Your Feet and has done in the past with his work -- including spots he has held with Disney, Netflix, Nike, and as a professor at the University of Oregon. Instead of just telling us about it, though, we are going to walk through and experience it and, he suggested that he be the one doing the interviewing with me as the one answering the questions today.

This is the third time we have flipped the script like this on The Brainy Business podcast. You definitely don’t want to miss handing over the reins so we can all learn to define and apply together.

• [00:42] In today's conversation, I am joined by Dr. Troy Campbell, who was on the show back in 2021 talking about the science of cool.
• [02:25] Troy is taking over the reins as host, and our beloved Melina is the guest on the show today. 
• [02:44] On this episode, we are going to deeply define ideas to be able to powerfully apply them across many areas. We will deeply define one idea from Melina’s book What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You. 
• [04:07] Burnt popcorn is the aspect of priming when we are specifically talking about change management. 
• [07:03] Melina shares an example of a burnt popcorn email she received.  
• [09:52] It is so easy to create burnt popcorn. Burnt popcorn can poison the day (week, month, year…).
• [12:07] You can guarantee they are going to be looking at the worst possible context of whatever it is that you are saying if you prime and set it up in certain ways. (“Not to be rude, but…” “Don’t take this the wrong way, but…”)
• [13:16] These mundane actions can create hours, days, and weeks of stress that can be avoided with a few seconds of better thought. 
• [14:33] There are small things you can easily adjust and very quickly see a positive impact. 
• [16:52] When it comes to a presentation, consider where you want people to be at the end. What is the most important thing you want from this one event?
• [19:07] Using really good images is important for priming in presentations. 
• [21:03] You can tell a lot in 90 seconds.  
• [24:13] Anchoring on something really bad to make the thing you are sharing seem better can definitely be burnt popcorn. The “not true” thing you said will not dissipate. 
• [26:28] If you give the brain a focus and then try to change that focus, it is still going to be stuck on that thing in most situations. 
• [29:45] Take the time to do the research and know who you are talking to.
• [31:44] We do really weird stuff that can come off as burnt popcorn. 
• [34:42] Through the book writing process there are glimmers of fun that Melina and other authors like to include. 
• [37:39] When you are not great with humor, many people lean toward self-deprecating humor.  Melina advises against that…especially if you are trying to build authority. 
• [39:14] She shares the Wizard of Oz reference from her book and what she meant by, “Glinda may have been a good witch, but she was a terrible manager.” 
• [41:29] Knowing where people are, where they are going, and the right points where you can be giving those nudges of encouragement, feedback, or support before they entered into a scary forest is something you can be doing as a manager to help.  
• [43:57] So many things become easier when you are thoughtful about how you present information. 
• [46:11] It doesn’t take a lot to make it so that things are better for those around you and yourself. 
• [48:57] It is one thing to go to Disneyland and it is another thing to build Disneyland. 
• [49:56] Melina’s closing thoughts
• [51:45] Troy's define and apply process is about teasing out what you do in a particular area and figuring out why it works. Get to the details about what makes it special and then expand it into other areas that may seem unrelated but are so relevant when you stop and make the effort.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

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• Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com
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• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

• Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• What Your Employee Needs and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger
• Alchemy, by Rory Sutherland
• Buying Signals, by Nikki Rausch

Connect with Troy:

• Troy’s Website
• On Your Feet
• Troy on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: The Science of Cool, with Dr. Troy Campbell (ep 169)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Disney (ep 144)
• The Truth About Pricing (episode 5)
• Change Management (ep 226)
• Framing (ep 16)
• A Surprise Guest… (ep 152)
• Ultimate Pricing Confidence with Special Guest Interviewer Nikki Rausch (ep 66)
• Costco (ep 47)
• Amazon (ep 159)
• Starbucks (ep 73)
• A More Beautiful Question with Warren Berger (ep 200)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• Tingen Industries