Is it time to say goodbye to your DSLR?

Are mirrorless cameras really the future of dental photography?

If your DSLR is still working perfectly, should you upgrade now or wait for the right time?

Jaz is joined by Dr. Ashish Soneji in this game-changing episode to discuss the death of the DSLR and why the shift to mirrorless cameras is inevitable.

They break down whether you should proactively switch or strategically hold off, plus what this means for your existing lenses.

You’ll also learn the rules of mix and match—can you use your current DSLR lens on a mirrorless body? And most importantly, which mirrorless lenses are worth buying and which ones to avoid (hint: if they don’t have markings, you might be in trouble!).

If you care about consistent, high-quality dental photography, this episode is a must-listen!

https://youtu.be/Y29Mnz26ZIU

Watch PDP239 on Youtube

Protrusive Dental Pearl: Jaz introduces the 21-Day Photography Challenge for beginners, featuring 21 short videos to help dentists take clear, well-framed photos. In just three weeks, participants will master essential shots, including tricky occlusal views, at their own pace.

Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below!

Key Takeaways:

Investing in quality equipment pays off in the long run.
Mirrorless cameras offer significant advantages over DSLRs.
Lighting is crucial for capturing quality images.
Standardized images require barrel markings on lenses.
Second-hand DSLRs can be a cost-effective option for beginners.
The evolution of camera technology impacts photography practices.
Choosing the right lens is essential for dental photography.
Flash consistency is vital for accurate representation in images.
Upgrading to mirrorless is a smart move for future-proofing photography. Upgrading your camera setup should align with your clinical progression.
Mirrorless cameras are lighter and offer better image quality.
Consider the size and transportability of your camera kit.
Timing for upgrades can be linked to job changes or equipment failures.
Image quality is influenced by megapixels, especially for presentations and printing.
Using the right tools, like smaller mirrors and retractors, can improve photography outcomes.
Testing second-hand cameras before purchase is crucial to avoid issues.
Mobile photography is improving, but may not match the quality of dedicated cameras.
Investing in good photographic equipment is essential for quality results.

Highlights of this episode:

00:00 Teaser
00:47 Intro
01:41 Protrusive Dental Pearl
03:30 Ashish’s Journey into Photography
09:06 The Shift from DSLR to Mirrorless Cameras
13:33 Choosing the Right Camera Setup
15:32 Upgrading to Mirrorless Cameras
19:22 Camera Recommendations for Beginners
27:23 Investing in Reliable Flash Equipment
32:20 Investing in Reliable Flash Equipment
33:48 When to Upgrade Your Camera Setup
38:08 Getting HQ Images: Mirrorless vs DSLR
42:03 Avoiding Newer Lenses
43:23 Posterior Quadrant Photography
47:50 Tips for Buying Second-Hand Cameras
49:54 Mobile Dental Photography: Are We There Yet?
53:20 Getting Your First Mirrorless Camera
55:40 Course Information
57:53 Outro

💡Catch Dr. Ashish Soneji’s upcoming course The Magic of Dental Photography this November 2025!

📅 Friday 14th November 2025 – Exclusively for BUPA dental care professionals at Bupa Head Office in Staines
📅 Saturday 15th November 2025 – Open to all dental care professionals at the A-dec Showroom in Bracknell

You can head over to https://www.magicofdentistry.com/ and add yourself to the waitlist. Further details on how to book will be sent directly to your email.

Course overview:

Understanding an SLR camera it’s features
Understanding a mirrorless camera and its features
Discussing the process of recording an image
Overview of SLR equipment available and custom set-up for dental photographs
Overview of mirrorless equipment available and custom set-up for dental photographs
Understanding how to record a standardised set of clinical photographic views and posterior quadrant photographs
Logistics of effective clinical photography workflow
Introduction into more advanced techniques
Introduction into recording portrait views
Case presentations
Hands-on implementation of the concepts discussed

If you liked this episode, you will also love Basics of Dental Photography [B2B] – PDP087

#PDPMainEpisodes #PDPMainEpisodes

This episode is eligible for 1 CE credit via the quiz on Protrusive Guidance.

This episode meets GDC Outcomes B and C.

AGD Subject Code: 130 ELECTIVES (138 Dental photography)

Aim: To explore the transition from DSLR to mirrorless cameras in dental photography and highlight the advantages, optimal setups, and key considerations for upgrading.

Dentists will be able to:

1. Recognize the benefits of mirrorless cameras, including focus peaking, real-time adjustments, image stabilization, and high ISO performance.

2. Choose appropriate mirrorless cameras, lenses, and flash setups based on their clinical photography needs.

3. Assess whether transitioning from a DSLR to a mirrorless system is the right choice based on their current equipment and practice requirements.

Click below for full episode transcript:

Teaser: Is it RIP DSLR? It actually is because around sort of 2020, Nikon and Canon have pretty much stopped developing the cameras. There's many advantages of that, mainly from the fact that prices are coming down.

Teaser:
And also from the fact that technologies moving forward, but also from the fact that you’re not getting so much support from the suppliers. If you have problems or if your camera is going to break or issues like that, you’re not going to get so much support.

Yeah posterior shots exactly. The point that I sort of made at the beginning is it’s about the light, right? It’s about getting that powerful exposure of light, which you’re just not going to get with a camera and there’s so much more better quality images. And even the way that you’re holding your DSLR the mechanics of how you’re holding that, you’re going to a better frame shot, you’re going to create better angles. So if I’m on to invest in the good clip–

Jaz’s Introduction:
I’m actually a little bit emotional, guys. It’s the death of the DSLR camera. You’ll find out in this episode why? The future, the now is mirrorless cameras. They are perfect for dentistry and they are the future. They’re not going to make any more DSLRs in the future. But the million dollar question is if like me, you already have a decent camera.

It’s a DSLR, the photos are fine, you have no issues with it, should you? Proactively or preemptively upgrade now to a mirrorless? Or is there perhaps a more strategic time to do that? What are the rules of mix and match? Can I use my existing lens on a mirrorless body?

And you’ll also find out which mirrorless lens to buy and which ones to avoid because they don’t have any markings, that they don’t have any markings. How are you going to keep your photographs in consistent reproducible framing? We cover all that with our guest, Dr. Ashish Soneji.

Dental Pearl:
Every PDP episode, I give you a Protrusive Dental Pearl, and this one is pretty special. This one’s dedicated to anyone who’s new to dental photography. Like you’ll hear the importance of dental photography and you know why it’s important. That’s why you’re listening to this episode. You just cannot develop as a clinician without a camera.

So dedicated to the absolute new beginner to photography I’ve created. The 21 day photography challenge. Just give me three weeks and I’ll get you taking consistent, beautiful, nicely framed, nicely exposed photographs. It’s like an online challenge if you like, right? 21 videos. Now they are short little videos that you can consume day by day, and like I said, within three weeks you’ll be taking great photos, like you’ll be proud of them as a beginner, including the dreaded occlusal photo.

The 21-day Photography Challenge starts with which kit to buy and then develops into all the different shots and all the different settings and why you do each setting. You can choose to do one video a day, or you can actually binge the whole series in true Netflix fashion. The choice is yours at the time of publishing this episode, it is now available on the Protrusive Guidance app.

You’ll see it listed in the Jaz’s Masterclasses section. And it’s got all the cheat sheets you need as well. So if you’re brand new to gender photography and you love our content, then do check it out. Now do I think you need a hands-on course? Ideally, right? So what my 21 day challenge does, it gets you started, it gets you to pick up the kit and start taking photos and start practicing those dreaded shots, but to go to the next level I would recommend an in-person hands-on course, which really does elevate you.

This could be from our guest Ashish today, or anyone local to you who takes good photos that you admire and is passionate about teaching dental photography. I know you’re going to love Ashish. Let’s check him out and I’ll catch you in the outro. But remember, if you’re interested in a 21 day challenge, check out the Protrusive Guidance app. Catch in a bit.

Main Episode:
Dr. Ashish Soneji welcome to the Protrusive Dental Podcast, my friend. How are you doing?

[Ashish]
Not too bad, man. Glad to be spending the time with you.

[Jaz] Dude, you’ve been in task with like a huge one, right? This is a huge one. Photography is like the most important, most foundational, most primitive thing in dentistry. I see I mean that in a good way not primitive as in like it’s slow down, but like this is like the first thing I paid attention to when I graduated and it is like one of my videos I made years ago, like how do I take quadrant photos is still like getting thousands of views because people are looking for this stuff.

So before we get into that, I know you’re a massive geek when it comes to cameras. Before we hit the record button, you are like “Man, I got every single camera I ever got.” So we’re going to be talking about that. But I don’t know much about you, Ash. Tell me about you.

[Ashish]
Cool. Yeah, so thanks for the lovely introduction, by the way, and we’ll definitely geek out on all aspects of the cameras. Like we’re going to go way back. I’ve got the original camera that I first ever had. So actually, the point that you made what really resonates with me is the fact that you say that this is a really reflective subject. I think that when we look at a photograph, it just brings up so many emotions as well, and you remember so many things about that snapshot that I think is a really important reflective tool.

So I suppose to give an introduction about me, I’m based in private practice and I work predominantly in the Southwest. So I work in two practices, one in the Center of Bristol called Queen Square Dental Clinic. And I do about three clinical days there. And the rest of my time I split clinical with a group of practice in Warminster, which is south of Bath. And I do a fair bit of teaching as well. I enjoy doing some mentoring and a lot of that is through photography. Photography is the key tool that we’ve got in our toolbox here that will help me with a lot of things.

[Jaz]
And who inspired you to get into photography? Like what was the decision that you made that “You know what, I’m going to take this seriously.” Like for some people, some dentists, they’ve always been into photography throughout Dental school for other reasons, right? And then they get into dental photography very easily.

Whereas I found the vast majority, including myself, you buy the camera stuff, we’ll get into the journey and stuff, and you start taking clinical photos, but then you realize you’ve got a holiday coming. You think, “Well, look, I’ve got a posh camera now. I could start taking photos of bloody ladybirds and stuff. And you start doing that. So how, how did it happen for you?

[Ashish]
It’s a good question. So I mean, it dates back a way back, right. So, I mean, my first ever job was in John Lewis and I worked with cameras then. So like way back, I had a bit of an interest when it was like the Panasonic Lumix cameras and things like that. I used to geek out with megapixels. All the processes and all the latest kicks I really got into then. I never had a camera through Dental School, around 2007, 2012. When I was in dental school, photography was something you’d basically send to the photography department, and that’s the only way you’d get photos for your patients.

And it only really took off around sort of 2013, 2012, like DSLRs is something that was used a lot more regularly in photography. So really I had a great VT position. My DF1 position was amazing and they had a camera for the whole practice to use and I implemented that. I really got into it that way and I found that when I was photographing my work, I fortunately had a lot of time to be able to do that. I was learning so much more and I was so much more passionate about what I was learning because I understood it so much more. I could look back at things and it was helping me in so many different ways.

And then when we did all of our case presentations and everything, it went well, I got a price for click photography and I suppose that that was like a real buzz for me then. And really my first kit that I ever got was actually when I did a certificate course with Chris. And Chris really inspired me from the photography side. So when I bought this kit, I literally went all in. I fully trusted what he was saying. And invested in a really good DSLR kit at the time. And since then I just haven’t looked back. I’ve stayed, I had that camera for about sort of 8,9 years and a few little upgrades along the way and the passion has stayed there.

[Jaz]
How much do you spend on your first DSLR kit? The lens, the body, the flash.

[Ashish]
I’ve spent a fair amount. Like there were secondhand options, but I thought it’s a tax deductible expense. I know that if I invest well, this is going to last me a while, so 2000, two grand.

[Jaz]
That’s a decent chunk of change. And I respect that because it’s something used for nine years, right? And so it’s one of those things, and one of the key philosophies in life is people pay attention to what they pay for. And so you pay, you value it. It’s a bit like I joined this mentoring program in life and stuff whereby you have to write your goals so many times in a day.

And the guy that she says “Listen, go and buy a fancy notepad. Don’t buy any old notepad. Buy a fancy notepad and get a posh pen.” And actually all these little things make a difference. Whether you believe in that or not, I don’t care. But like you bought, you went out because you told the universe that “Yo Ashish here. I’m going to take some awesome photos. I’m going to win that prize.” Which you did, right? So that’s amazing.

I cheaped out man, like I got secondhand but like good stuff. I got a Canon 6DD, which was decent back then. It’s like 2013 and it was totally adequate for dentistry. Got the correct lens again and the ring flash all used and everything. I forgot it came to about 6, 7 pounds. I even had to pretend to be a woman for the lens.

So basically, I was emailing this dude on Gumtree. And he kind of was like, flirting with me on Gumtree and then he thought that I was a chick. And so to continue this theme, to kind of bring the price down a bit right. To the 250 mark, I then took my sister to pretend to be me. So that he didn’t think he was still doing it the whole time.

[Ashish]
I’d never think to go to those ‘lengths man’, that’s commitment to get your first photography set cafe.

[Jaz]
It’s in the DNA mate. Wait, I used that for many, many years. And we could talk about what we upgraded to. So tell me about your first kit and then obviously the main thing I’d love to talk about eventually as a conversation evolves to it is the death of DSLR, right? Like, is DSLR dying and therefore mirrorless is the future. But I guess the best way to take that is, over to you, Ash, how do you want to address this? Should we talk about DSLR first before, or should we just go for the kill? Or go mirrorless.

[Ashish]
Let’s do that because there’s going to be plenty of people with. DSLR setups right now. And they’re probably thinking the same sort of thing. Like is it worth upgrading? When should I do that? What’s the deal with it? So I thought I’ll go through my first ever kit. And this is pretty much what Chris recommended. It’s the Canon 700D. I’ve got a hundred millimeter macro lens, it’s the EF because the color reproducibility of this is much better. So I invested a little bit more in the lens.

[Jaz]
So you are like a super geek in this. So EF like I thought they’re all EF right? So wait, I know there was an L series and L series supposed to be the red, it’s like the equivalent of a normal handpiece and a red ring handpiece, right? The red ring lens is like the posh one. It’s like decent and stuff, but I never knew whether it’d be worth it or not. But you are saying it’s like EF is an additional thing to have on your lens.

[Ashish]
So it’s actually the color reproducability, it’s a higher quality lens.

[Jaz]
Okay.

[Ashish]
So you are investing more in the lens. You’ll get better optics and visuals through the lens.

[Jaz]
So this is not the same L series. So this L series is different.

[Ashish]
It’s different. so invested well in the lens at the time, right? I can’t remember exactly how it was, but it was the most expensive bet.

[Jaz]
But the lens is more important than the body, right?

[Ashish]
Well, at the time, I would agree with that statement, right? Because the lens is what is controlling your exposure, essentially. There’s many things you’re controlling, like essentially your aperture with the lens so this is what we had to invest in heavily. But the other second most important thing is light. We need to get good light.

When we’re close to a subject and we’re in a dark space, inevitably to be able to get a good exposure, to get a good photo, we need light is one of the most important factors. I didn’t know a massive amount about twin flashes then, and it wasn’t that widely available. One of the best ring flashes on the market was this Metz. I absolutely love this. There were a couple of good things about it.

[Jaz]
That’s a ring flash. That’s a ring.

[Ashish]
Yeah, this is a ring flash. So this is the MS1 15 mets. They no longer make it, but what I loved about it is the fact that you could almost like, because a lot of the time with the DSLRs you have to look through the viewfinder and the way that you kind of focus is you kind of rock backwards and forwards. So for a beginner to get used to using a DSLR, it’s a bit tricky. It needs a lot of practice.

Now, I’ll kind of weave in a little bit about mirrorless now, is that with mirrorless? For a beginner to pick up a mirrorless, it’s so much easier. And the reason for that is a couple of different things is the fact that you’ve got this thing called focus peaking. So focus peaking is essentially giving you an outline; it’s almost like a filter that goes around the image. So for instance, like with the Sony setup that I use now, I choose like a blue focus peaking filter.

And around the teeth, when I know I’m in sharp focus, it goes blue around the edge of the teeth. And I also don’t have to look through the view finder, I’m looking at the screen. So there’s many things that you can address live while you’re taking the photo. The downside of DSLR is that once that image is captured, if it’s out of focus you’re kind of done.

You can’t really do a lot with the image, whereas you’ve got this live correction as you’re using a mirrorless camera. So you can control many things. You can control the light, you can control if it’s not in focus, you can address that. You have an idea of what that shot looks like, and sometimes when you’re looking through the viewfinder and you take the shot, it’s not that much of an issue like you think this is a good shot. But I do a fair bit of lecturing, I do quite a lot of teaching. So when you blow it up you can tell that that’s out of focus. So mirrorless is a big advantage for that, that you’ll get a great exposure. The other nice thing is that-

[Jaz] Before you just continue, because I wanted to talk about this point a little bit, if I’ve got the Canon, I think 90D is what I’ve got, right? And I bought this a couple of years ago, just before the mirrorless got really lifted up and I kind of wish I got the mirrorless. We’ll talk about that. So I’ve got the Canon 90D and it has got this feature whereby it’s all I use, because one of the questions from the community actually was like, is it the annoying thing you got loops on? And then when you want to take a photo, you want to use the screen, not the view finder.

And therefore, as you said, mirrorless made major advantages, but my 90D allows this in live mode and it allows me to do it. I just think what you are trying to say is that the mirrorless is far slicker, the technology is way better than what the DSLRs, the even the modern ones are trying to do.

[Ashish]
Completely, I mean the image stabilization is the other thing. And we’ll come onto a little bit of the next upgrade that I went to if I kind of went to the halfway house. So I didn’t fully commit to going mirrorless, because I still had some old lenses. So I bought an adapter to go with my mirrorless camera, but I’m not fully optimizing things like image stabilization with that. And I’m creating a bit of a latency.

So it’s not as slick as if you get a full mirrorless kit. So if you get a mirrorless body and the corresponding lens that goes to that, that tech works together. So that’s a really important point that I don’t really believe in going halfway. I think you either kind of commit to going fully mirrorless because that’s the way that techs are evolving.

And then, we talk about, is it a RIP DSLR? It actually is because around 2020, Nikon and Canon have pretty much stopped developing the cameras, and then 2022, they’ve actually stopped the manufacturing sales of these. So if you have a problem and repairing it, you’re just not going to get the parts for them. So now really is a serious time to think about upgrading or changing. And if I was a newbie and coming into this, I would seriously think that, is it worth going for a decent muralist setup? That’s my view because you’re going to think that if you’re going to last buy this in it to last you another kind of 8-9 years, you may as well go all in and go more, less that’s my view.

[Jaz]
I totally agree with that actually. And I was thinking of an analogy before our podcast today, and to me it reminds me totally of the whole, diesel cars. So from 2030, no more diesel cars. It said even manufacture everything and even hybrid cars no longer from 2035. After 2035 in the UK it has to be fully electric or hydrogen powered. And so, it kind of makes sense to get your charger and your houses now, get that all sorted. And then also when you need a new car, then “Okay, why look at diesel, when you can now look at electric.” Which is coming down on price as well, which I imagine the mirrorless world is as well.

And it’s the future and so I think it’s a very easy recommendation to give from this podcast that if you are brand new, then maybe, well maybe look for a mirrorless setup, but are the secondhand ones, are there many secondhand ones out there, mirrorless setups? Has there been enough time for them to be used enough to become secondhand yet?

[Ashish]
There are. I’ve seen, for instance, I may as well this quite nicely follows onto the next upgrade that I went onto, so the next setup, I naturally was doing a lot more aesthetic work. I was doing a lot more anterior work and I got to know and learn a lot about twin flashes. I got to learn a lot more about diffusers, and this is the halfway house setup that I kind of went with because I did have a 60 millimeter focal length canon macro lens. And this is the Canon R10 body, so this is a cropped frame camera.

[Jaz]
Mirrorless, the R10’s mirrorless.

[Ashish]
Correct. Okay Mirrorless Canon. So you’ll find quite a few people that may have got an R10 and there is more uptodate tech out there now, so they may be selling the R 10. This is the thing, my wife uses this camera, so this is my wife’s camera now. So she’s a dentist and she’s doing a lot more. She’s started an aesthetic restorative diploma and she loves it. She gets great shots from it. The positives of this is the fact that when you’re taking anterior shots, it’s really great because you get quite a good frame, you get plenty of the shot in and the colors that are reproduced, look really natural.

For posterior shots there’s a slight disadvantage of this. So the problem that you’ve got is it’s got a fairly short focal length. So it means that you’re trying to take a posterior shot, you’re having to get quite close to the subject with the same magnification as if you had like a hundred millimeter macro lens, you’d be a bit further away from the subject.

So the downside of that, and when you’re taking a posterior shot, I get this complaint quite a lot is that my posterior images are really dark, like why is that? And a lot of the time it’s because you’re so close to the subject and you’re using twins, potentially, you’re not getting enough light in. So one tip that I’ve got, if you have that situation, is move the twin flashes closer together. And position them so that they’re much straighter, more power-

[Jaz]
Acting like a ring flash then aren’t they? In a way?

[Ashish]
Correct. And then that will improve that situation. But the downside is you’re getting uncomfortably close to the patient with that.

[Jaz]
So classically, the first photographer of course I ever went on, they recommended the hundred millimeter lens for that reason so that you don’t have to smell so much perial breath when you’re taking photos. So why is it that you went with your R10 Cannon Mirrorless. Why is it that you went for a 60? Is it because they don’t produce a hundred?

[Ashish]
I think also part of the reason is because the R10 is a cropped camera, so if I had gone with a hundred millimeter for this which it is possible to get. What I’ll find is the framing of my shot will be super close. So the really the difference between a full frame and a cropped sensor, so traditionally a full frame, the reason they call it that is that when we were using film, it was 35 millimeters, 35 was the number. And that’s exactly what a full frame sensor does. A crop sensor is smaller it’s got a crop factor. And that means that you’re going to get less of the image on the sensor, basically.

So what you’ll find is if you’re using a macro lens is you are, you are not going to see and it’s a cropped body, you’re not going to see as much of that image. So that was the reason I went for something that has a shorter focal length, because I frame a lot more of the shot basically, and I was doing a lot more anterior shots. So if I use this for posterior shots, it’s not amazing. I don’t get as good shots as I do with my new setup.

And what I find with my numeral setup is it’s much better, it’s a much more universal setup that I use and I’m really happy with it. I think as things have evolved, there is such a thing as something that is good for posterior shots and anterior shots and I use a combination of ring flash and twin flash.

[Jaz]
Okay. And so before we move on, then. A recommendation for their first camera that’s really, I’m sure you get so many questions that I’m going to buy a camera, which one should I get? So I still do think that perhaps because you can get a better deal on, because if there’s so many people selling their DSLRs I imagine, and there always have been that you can probably get a better deal on the ring flash even the Chinese company, YONGNUO like they do have stuff at good prices.

[Ashish]
Yeah, they do. And look, if you’re first starting out, there’s no harm in getting something like that but the downside is, that you may quickly evolve from that. What you have to try and do is you may not future proof yourself as much as you think. But if you’re starting out and you want to learn, there’s no harm in getting a secondhand set up.

[Jaz]
It’s okay. Because your first set, it’s like a training set, right? You’re kind of learning. It’s a bit more nurse proof, maybe.

[Ashish]
True. If the camera’s going to be dropped, that kind of thing, then that’s a consideration. However, the other serious consideration is mirrorless prices have actually dropped recently. So an interesting one is Sony setups, for instance, and depends where your budget is. But an interesting thing that I saw on Sony online was the Sony A7 mark 3 which is originally a 1500 body but has dropped to a thousand. So if your budget is stretching to that, I mean the setup that I would get if your budget is around kind of 1700 is to go for Sony mirrorless, either the go full frame. You’ll have much more versatility, you’ll get better shots. And seriously consider the A7 mark 3. The price of that has just dropped.

[Jaz]
To a thousand-

[Ashish]
And you’re looking at the actual lens that works with this mirrorless camera. So you’re going to get a lot of the optimized technology that is a 90 millimeter macro lens, and it works with a mirrorless camera the computer speaks to the lens really well it’s got amazing image stabilization.

It’s one of the only actual cameras of this marker, I actually have the lens here, and the really important thing is the barrel of the camera has actually got markings on. So this is super important there’s quite a few new mirrorless lenses that don’t have this. And why is this so important? This is what will allow you to have standardized images.

[Jaz]
Oh wow. That’s so important for me as a DSLR user. All our lenses have that . And so–

[Ashish]
Exactly.

[Jaz]
I can’t imagine using one without it. I rely on that so much to get standardization and so that’s a great point. You shouldn’t buy a lens if it doesn’t have that.

[Ashish]
Yeah. Some of the newer Canon setups do not have the barrel markings on.

[Jaz] D–m.

[Ashish]
In a way that has changed things for macro photography, particularly for Dental. So for instance, if I’m doing an anterior shot, I’ll usually have my magnification to one in three. And the orphan, see in like these amazing lectures I went onto this Tony Rotondo course recently, and his photos are just amazing, and what he was doing is overlapping each photo and every single photo looked the same. He was almost like flipping a book and the image hadn’t changed. And I was like, how has he actually done that?

And the secret to that is basically keeping it on the same magnification. And he knows he’s always going to be the same distance from the subject. All he has to do is frame the photo. And with the focus peaking, you know that you’re going to be in focus, so it makes things so much easier. The other really important point is that the ring flash- So this is something a bit unique to a relationship that Sony has with Godox, is the fact that it is an optimized flash to work with a setup for dental photography.

[Jaz]
Oh wow.

[Ashish]
So you actually read the flash and it’s the MFR76S plus dental ring flash. So it is made for dental photography. Sony’s done the research and optimized the settings so that it’s used. So in a mode code called ETTL, which uses the ambient light in the room, you’ll always get a good amount of light, you’ll get consistent light setting. So as a beginner, I think that’s really important as well. So, you know-

[Jaz]
My Canon ring flash, it’s like the MR24EX. I think I’ve been using ETTL for a long time. That’s good as well.

[Ashish]
Yeah. The only thing is what sort of consistency, the question I get with that. because I personally haven’t used that flash. But the question I’ll ask you is what sort of consistency do you get in your lighting? Say if you had a dark day, do you feel you get, a fairly consistent shot? It’d be interesting to see what shot you got in December versus what shot you got in June. Like is it different?

[Jaz]
That’s a great point. I’ll have to look. I mean, you are someone I could tell already that you have an eye for this. Like you got extra cones and rods in your eyes that you can see this stuff. Like you remind me of my principal, John, one of my good mates, John.

We’d be at Uni and we’d be watching TV and he’d be like, “Ah, this isn’t HD this isn’t 4K.” I’m like, “Dude, it’s a TV man. Like, just watch football, man.” Like two people got an eye for it. So I’m sure you could tell, but to my untrained eye, I haven’t noticed it but for whitening photographs before and after, I’ll use manual crash to make sure that as well as their teeth, their skin doesn’t go 10 shades lighter as well.

[Ashish]
Yeah, it’s true. You can switch to those settings, but my point is that I think as a beginner you’ll get much more consistent flash lighting, and the lighting is a really important factor to that image, particularly exactly the point that you raise with whitening. I know sometimes it’s tempting to tweak the exposure slightly so you get a better result. But actually if you want consistent biting and cut the value of the teeth to look similar. Then flash exposure is super important for that.

[Jaz]
Ash, am I naughty? Is it possible to use the lens that I have now, which is the standard Canon a hundred millimeter dental philosophy lens everyone seems to get right? Yeah. Can I get the R10 mirrorless body and stick my lens on that?

[Ashish]
You can, yeah. So actually I’ll answer that question with this setup that I’ve got. So the-

[Jaz]
I think I’m saying you have a set for it.

[Ashish]
Yeah, I’m a super like visual person. I’ve got a bit of photographic memory. Ironically, when I hold it in my hand, I can explain it so much better. So the actual R10, the way that I’ve mounted the 60 millimeter lens, and it’s got the same connection as the a hundred, is that I’ve got a mount adapter, so it’s called the EF to eos R adapter. So it is possible to do that.

[Jaz]
For any of your Canon lenses. You can stick to your R10 canon, but you probably can’t do Canon to Sony.

[Ashish]
No, you can’t do that. The adapter is specifically for the R 10 body. So that is possible to do, say for instance, if you had upgraded a setup to a better lens, that may be a reason to do a halfway house. But the downside is that if you’re then going to go mirrorless, what you’ve got to remember is that you don’t have the barrel markings on the mirrorless body.

[Jaz]
But the barrel markings are usually on the lens.

[Ashish]
On the lens. Sorry. So you wouldn’t have them on the lens. Yeah so then if you were then converting to a mirrorless lens then you don’t have the barrel markings on the lens.

[Jaz]
Is that why you are an advocate of Sony? Because they produce a lens that has the barrel markings.

[Ashish]
Correct. That’s kind of what made me change. I was in this halfway house mode where I had the best setup that I could have gone for an R8, which has better megapixels, better body, for instance. But actually I knew that to give me the most reproducible and consistent shots I needed the barrel markings and I wanted to get the most out of the mirrorless tech.

And that’s hence the reason why I went for the Sony setup because it all works together, it all fits together and it’s very straightforward. Like I literally took out of the box, put it all together, picked the settings that I’ve kind of customized and that’s something which I go over in a course as well. We did a course at Entangle Tub recently. And the settings, they just work.

They’re very similar to settings that we’ll be using, but the benefit of mirrorless cameras is that we can use a slightly higher ISO and the rationale for that is that the sensors are much better quality. So one of the downsides of the DSLRs is that if we increase the ISO settings we get a lot more noise in the actual image.

However, the quality of the sensors are much better with the mirrorless. So you don’t have that problem you can increase your ISO to quite a lot higher. And essentially reduce your flash power slightly and you’ll still get a really nice image.

[Jaz]
So the one you recommended was the A7 Mark 3 Sony Mirrorless body. The–

[Ashish]
Yeah! Godox ring flash, and it’s a ring flash, not a twin flash. Have they got a twin as well? Yeah, they do have twins. And I think that if we come to if you have a slightly higher budget–

[Jaz]
Let’s just complete that. Godox and then what’s the lens called? Of the lower budget one-

[Ashish]
The 90 mil. This is still something that if you then went to the higher budget, it will still work with that body. So it’s the Sony 90 millimeter macro lens that is a slightly higher budget to go with your mirrorless camera.

[Jaz]
Okay.

[Ashish]
But if you are looking at a sort of lower budget, then you’re probably looking at the– I mean, you also have third party lenses as well. But I personally am not a massive fan of third party lenses, but you can get Tamron or Tokina. And they could work with some of the other setups that you’re talking about as a slightly lower budget.

[Jaz]
Okay. Is it a Sony brand? The lower budget mirrorless lens that goes with the–!

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
A 7 mark.

[Ashish]
It is a Sony brand. And the lens is about 500 pounds.

[Jaz]
Brand new?

[Ashish]
Brand new.

[Jaz]
That’s pretty good. That’s not bad, okay. And then just on the topic of ring flashes, because you mentioned ring flash earlier, the Godox one. And then they’ve got twin flash versions as well, which is promising. But the ones that are marketed on like Ali Express and eBay as the LED ones, they’re no good. Right?

[Ashish]
No, I think you have to get a decent kit because I’ll give you an example is I did get, you talked about the brand before, because I had that upgrade. You know the twin flash you were talking about that you had, that went with your Canon setup.

[Jaz]
Yeah. MR24EX,

[Ashish]
It’s YangNuo.

[Jaz]
YangNuo, yes.

[Ashish]
I did have that twin flash. I’ll give you an experience of that, for instance. It did work well, but after about a year or so, it just didn’t stop working, it didn’t last. It didn’t seem to give me the reliability that I wanted. So I do believe that if you invest well it’s going to last you much longer so that’s the other big benefit. And actually the price of the Godox flashes, they’ve come down a lot. If you compare it to Canon Twin Flash, I’m pretty sure that may have cost you around 600, 700, roughly.

[Jaz]
Yeah, probably I’d like to buy refurbished and stuff when I can on wex.

[Ashish]
Yeah, sure. And if you’re buying through wex, exactly. But then equally to buy new for instance, the MF12DK1 which is the Godox dental twin flash. So again, the optimized settings to work with the Sony brand new, you’re looking at around 350? So the prices of the flashes have dropped.

[Jaz]
Very competitive.

[Ashish]
Yeah. The price of it. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Can I use a Canon rim flash with, let’s say I upgrade to mirrorless, but the light is–

[Ashish]
The light.

[Jaz]
The light is light, right. So whether I get my existing Canon or I get a Godox, let’s say I’ve got my ring flash ready, a Canon one it’s a nice one, or my twin flash. Can I–

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
Get some sort of adapter to mount my canon ring flash to my Sony mirrorless lens.

[Ashish]
It’s a good question and I haven’t tried it. I’ll be honest, I haven’t tried that, so I’m not a hundred percent sure about that.

[Jaz]
Okay.

[Ashish]
It’s something that I’d like to try actually. Something to try.

[Jaz]
Why don’t you do it right now? I’m sure you’ve got all the kit right in front of you right now.

[Ashish]
Yeah, it’s true. The thing is, I don’t actually have the twin flash that you are talking about. The problem is, I’m not sure if the ring flash would actually attach.

[Jaz]
Yeah.

[Ashish]
The ring flash that I have, it wouldn’t attach in the same way.

[Jaz]
Okay. But information we know that Godox does. And so we’ve guidelines here, which is good, fine. So here’s a question that affects probably the majority of the people listening to this podcast right now. This is the scenario we are in. We’re cheap and therefore we don’t want to spend money.

[Ashish]
Yep.

[Jaz]
No. We have a set that we’re already using, so we are happy with our DSLR set. Let’s say, for example, I’m happy with my Canon 90 D with my a hundred millimeter canon macro lens, and with my Canon ring flash, and my twin flash. So I’ve got a good set going. Do you think I need to, or this cohort of Protruserati we need to just upgrade to mirrorless for the sake of it you think? Or should we wait for something to break or should we get ahead of the curve? When is the right time to upgrade? I understand it’s the future.

[Ashish]
Yeah, it’s a good point. I think that a natural time to upgrade is maybe as you are progressing in the type of clinical work you’re doing, that’s a natural progression. That’s kind of how it happened for me. I was working predominantly in NHS practice. I didn’t maybe have quite so much time to take as many photos, but as I had the time, I was moving into a fully private role.

Sometimes also, if you’re thinking about the amount of kit that you have, if you’re working in multiple different clinics as well, the actual what fits in your rucksuck, how do you transport this stuff as well. This is another thing, the size and how it all fits in.

So, maybe a good time for you to start a new role or if you’re moving to fully private practice, that may be a good time to invest in kit. Many people when they’re moving jobs or starting in a fully private place may upgrade their loops, for instance. So I see it much as a similar sort of philosophy that if you’re going to upgrade that maybe that would be a natural time to consider doing it. But timing wise it’s not a bad time to think about mirrorless.

There’s many advantages to that, mainly from the fact that prices are coming down. And also from the fact that technology’s moving forward, but also from the fact that you’re not getting so much support from the suppliers. If you have problems or if your camera is going to break or issues like that, you’re not going to get the same support.

[Jaz]
Yeah, I mean, that’s an obvious one. Like if something happens to my cannon trusty ring flash and my lens and it’s packing in and it’s going to cost 200 pounds to repair and stuff, it’s like, “Okay, fine. It is time now to upgrade.” It makes sense. So I get that it’s a very strong and easy way to upgrade, but yeah, a nice change in circumstance.

You mentioned a great point about moving things around and weight and stuff. I would love to know, is a mirrorless setup lighter than a traditional setup? Because it’s so, so important. Like for me, to take a good occlusal photograph if you can hold your camera set up with one hand, you’re like, you’re winning.

[Ashish]
Yeah. Holding it in the hand, it is much lighter than my DSLR setup. The body’s smaller, you can easily hold it with one hand, especially if you’re doing your occlusal shots. And you can angle it much easier. The other benefit is the fact, like if you’re doing certain surgeries, this is the A7 Mark4, so the screen does kind of flip out and you can tweak it at different angles. And remember that you can still use the focus peaking and still use the screen.

A lot of the time with occlusal shots, it’s about patient positioning, having all the timing ready, having your nurse on board, for instance, with retraction and chair positioning. That’s a super important thing with the occlusive shots as well. But, it is lighter and it dismantles much easier, so it’s quite a neat design with this.

Like you just literally slide it off and then as it slides off. You can pop it in, pop it in your rucksack, and I travel between two different clinics with this camera, and then my twin flash just stays in one of the surgeries, and then I just assemble it fairly easily there. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Well, I was going to ask you why would you ever need to dismantle it, but you travel between clinics? I get it. Okay. Because, back when I was traveling between clinics, I had this pick and pluck foam case, and I plucked it perfectly so that I didn’t have to dismantle my camera. I just literally put it in as it is. Take it out as it is with the ring flash, with the lens, everything attached. Because it was so important for me to have efficiency and speed, I get that kind of setup. I know that it doesn’t work out for everyone. Sometimes we need rucksacks and stuff, so we need to dismantle I get that.

So funny we talked about the evolution away from DSLR and how it rests in peace. I might make a funny video on Instagram, like make it like a funeral for a DSLR and coin with that idea that’d be good to get some traction for this episode. Mirrorless, you explained brilliantly about the focus peaking and also that’s lighter, I quite like that going to as well. You talk nicely about how if you’re going to go in and go all in, like you can get adapters to get the old type lens to mirrorless, but it’s better for them to talk better to each other in terms of getting a better image.

And then I guess I didn’t ask you, are mirrorless images actually better or the same or worse than your DSLR dental images that you’re proud of and you look back at?

[Ashish]
That’s a really good point. So I think what you’ve then got to look at is megapixels, right? This is a thing like the Canon, for instance, is around sort of 10 megapixels, the original one that I had. Now some of these newer setups will go between 33 megapixels, 61 megapixels, even if you’re going for the A7 Mark 5 Sony. So where does that become important? Yes, if you’re blowing your image up alot, So if you are using it for lectures or presentations, having that can be advantageous, but it’s also really important for printing.

The other important thing is not just blowing the image up, it’s also cropping the image. So if you are cropping parts of the image, that can have an impact, especially if you’re going quite a lot in. So the image quality, it is better. You’ll get a better image, but it depends again, what you’re using it for. For social media, for instance, and the screens that we’re using on there. You may see a slight difference, but it’s going to be negligible in that situation.

[Jaz]
One of my images of my current setup canon is around– when I export it from Apple Photos at like, I think high quality, not the highest, high quality comes at like 3 megabytes. What is the average final size for one of your Sony mirrorless photos? At a billion megapixels?

[Ashish]
Yeah. So it’s about 6 to 8 megabytes, what I use it on. And in terms of storage, it’s another consideration, how are you going to store them? But what I quite like is the wifi connection with the phone. And things, it’s much easier to–

[Jaz]
It’s like into dropbox

[Ashish]
Into Dropbox, it’s all inbuilt. Right.

[Jaz] Nice.

[Ashish]
And the other big thing that I really like about the setup that I’ve got now is that it’s got two SD card slots. So what I do, how many times have you thought you’ve left either the SD card slot in a tower or something? And you’re like, “D–n, where is that SD card slot? Did I drop it? Or did somebody take it?”

I’m going to have a massive GDPR issue here. But actually the benefit of it is that you can copy across. So you’ll have a one SD card slot that you agree with your nurse and yourself. We’re never going to touch that SD card, and you’ve always got it backed up because by the time you’ve got the image from your SD card into Dropbox and backed up, it takes time, right?

So yeah, I think, what I can see coming and evolving is taking the picture from the camera, and it appearing straight in your Dropbox. I can see that coming, I don’t think we’re far away from that tech.

[Jaz]
I think that should be there. So let’s think about it, right? So if you say it’s got the wifi connection and like, can you take a photo and how many seconds would it take to come to your laptop?

[Ashish]
If you’ve got a robust wifi connection, you’ll have it in about like sort of five, six seconds. It’ll be there.

[Jaz]
Then what you need to do is you set up a Zapier integration. From the folder and they’ll automatically put a drop off. I think that should be good.

[Ashish]
Definitely. And the other nice thing is, again, quite a lot of support from the guys at Sony, so they seem really proactive for the dental market at the moment. So any of these ideas that dentists have as future proof, they seem to be listening to. So they just seem really hungry to get into the dental market, even though it may be a relatively small market for them. They seem really hungry for it.

[Jaz]
They’ve been following all these dentists on Instagram. They’re like, da-n, do something. Okay, Ash. Now it’s time to cover some questions from the community. And oh my goodness. These are general, some of these are just basic dental photography, and some of these are very much related to the topic we’re having about Kit, so let’s probably discuss those kit ones first.

I’m just going to load up all the comments here on Protrusive Guidance. There’s lots from Michael, from K, from Literature. I’m just making sure I’ve got all of them. Question 1. Costas, ask about the pros and cons apart from the smaller size and lighter setup, are there any benefits? Well, you said already about the focus peaking, so we don’t need to do that.

We talked about upgrading, so basically Michael’s question was what would be the rationale to upgrade from DSLR to mirrorless? Is it just the Emperor’s new clothes? I like that question. I just wanted to ask about it, but again, we’ve covered that already, so we’ve done pretty well. Callum asked about ergonomics, grip and weight again. We covered that already. And it feels, why might you avoid the newer lenses designed for mirrorless cameras? Oh, okay. Is that because it doesn’t have the markings? Is that what you mean?

[Ashish]
I think that’s what he is trying to say. So there may be some that don’t have the barrel markings and as a result of that, you can’t get a consistent distance. You can’t reproduce the shot so well. It’s not going to be such a standardized image. The other sort of benefit of some of the settings in the camera is, and if we’re thinking more along the lines of us doing less post-processing, less cropping. The other big advantage is you can have a setting within the camera called the APSC.

It’s a crop setting, so even if you’ve got a full frame camera, you can still put it on that setting and crop it. So say if you’re doing a posterior shot, it’s already almost pre-crop for you. So in a way, there’s less post-processing. So I think from a workflow point of view, it’s going to make things easier. You can switch between those settings. Because generally speaking, when you are working in the posteriors, you don’t need so much framing of the image. So that’s the other benefit.

[Jaz]
Okay, so that’s the default in the mirrorless lens that you said, right? The Sony one?

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
Okay.

[Ashish]
So you have the setting, it’s a setting you can put on that’s so actually you can apply prop–

[Jaz]
That’s a function body then, and not necessarily of the lens.

[Ashish]
Yeah. It’s a function of the body. Correct. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Okay. Well, I’m glad you mentioned posterior quadrants because Kay, hello Kay from Sunny Scotland. Her question is, I’m having difficulty getting my posterior lower molars in the mirror. So, I’m not sure what to ask my nurse to do so I can see them better with my camera. So, I can imagine that scenario, try and put a mirror in and you’re not really seeing the teeth so well, and you’re trying to guide your nurse and you’re trying to take a photo and she’s actually attached a photo. So I’ll put this as well, basically. In fact, I’ll share this with you as well and we can actually stick this on.

[Ashish]
Is she talking about this as an occlusal shot, right? So she wants to be able to get further back as well.

[Jaz]
It looks like it. And she wants to be able to guide her nurse to be able to get images further back, as you can see.

[Ashish]
I think there’s two ways that you can get a better shot there, right? So part of it is sometimes maybe the shape of the mirror. So I’ve got a mirror here, right? And so this is almost like an occlusal mirror. And what you’ll notice is this is quite a big one you can get a smaller size mirror than this.

So what is possible to do is it’s got a wider neck, and it’s got a narrower neck. So if you get a smaller size, it’s worth having two size occlusal mirrors, and if you get the smaller size one and use the narrower neck and position it. Position the patient in such a way like I often have the patient laying fairly flat and then angling the mirror up. The mirror is almost touching the top teeth. And then that’s something that can really help with actually getting the image more perpendicular and seeing more of the teeth.

[Jaz]
Mm-hmm.

[Ashish]
The other thing that I’ve noticed in the image is there’s no lower lip retraction. So to get much more of a visual field and get rid of the soft tissues, you can get some really good retractors as you can get a lip retractor. I’ve actually got quite a cool kit. This is– again, if we’re upgrading it into certain kits. This is a kit that’s available through Optident. It’s the Smile Line Style Italiano kit. And within that it’s actually got like a black lip retractor. And I love this, it’s pretty comfortable for patients.

[Jaz]
It’s like a C shape–

[Ashish]
Like a C shape, right correct. And that will really help I’ll see if I can pull this one. So this is the one it’s called Form C, what that will allow you to do–

[Jaz]
I personally love using my Columbia Retractors. They’re called.

[Ashish]
Yeah they’re brilliant. Great.

[Jaz]
Versatile for all, all the shots, but then just holding about 70 degrees for the upper lip retraction for the upper occlusal and same with the lower lip.

[Ashish]
Yeah. Correct. That’s another one. And that’s like a clear retractor, right? Your Columbia one

[Jaz]
Metal, you like the metal ones.

[Ashish]
Yeah, sure.

[Jaz]
It’s like imagine you get a metal coat hanger and you twist it in a certain way and you get like a retractor out there it’s like that.

[Ashish]
Yeah. Fair enough. So, they’re good, they’re great. And for quadrant shots as well, that kind of hook that you can get, it’s Sternberg retractor. That’s great for retracting the cheek. And so I think the key to some of these images is soft tissue attraction, getting perpendicular to the teeth. Patient positioning is really key. And sometimes the benefit of mirrorless is you can frame the shot well with a DSLR. You may have to be looking through the viewfinder a little bit more to get it in focus.

And when you’re using a DSLR to get image stabilization better, you usually have to keep the camera a little bit closer to you and that way you can kind of rock back and forth and get better focus better. I find that with mirrorless, you don’t have to do that so much because the stabilization is better and the focus speaking is kicking in.

[Jaz]
Yeah, you’re right. Because I’m using my Canon like a mirrorless, right? Because I’m using that viewfinder right and pulling away from me. I realize that yes, the image stabilization isn’t as good. I totally agree. I have actually experienced that.

[Ashish]
Yeah. Other points on the occlusal shots, for instance, and a common problem that many people have is fogging mirror fogging. And I’ve not had easy solutions to that there’s many different ways you can warm the mirror up, or you can get a three in one tip, get yourself or your nurse coordinator in such a way where you time it, where you’ve got that and you’ve only got a short window opportunity to get that image.

A really cool, warmer that I’ve seen, it’s something that Jai Ragbir and Mike Gregory have made called the Deo-Dental. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. So it’s got a mirror module inside it. And you can slot your mirror inside and it doesn’t use any water or any steam or anything. It just warms the mirror to like 60 degrees basically.

[Jaz]
I got one recently with the bad fire from Australia.

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
Or comparison of some of the composite heaters. And then the reason I saw that one is because it had the mirror slot and I totally agree. The whole fogging thing goes away. And so what I used to do is we used to put it on like the Cosori Mug Heater and just be sat on top basically, and you’d use it. But now to have one of these devices with a mirror slot is great.

And so last question then, Isabella, before we talk about mobile gender photography actually, right?

[Ashish]
Sure.

[Jaz]
And so Isabella asked what to look out for or avoid when buying a second secondhand camera? It’s a good question because as a photography noob, you’re like trusting someone but you don’t know yourself.

What makes a good kit? I got really lucky. Every time I bought from someone, I tried to buy from people who were like photographers and so they obviously look after that kit and then like when I turn up there they had like, this is the shut account and as you can see, there’s no mold and like they knew so much like great I’ll take it mate, don’t worry about it. And so how do you know that this is good piece of kit, despite it being second?

[Ashish]
I mean, things you’re looking for are like scratches in the sensor or the issues with that. Because sometimes you can get these like black dots in your image as you’re looking. And that’s sometimes if the sensors had issues, if the camera’s been dropped, and so it’s always good to try the setup, take a photo with that.

[Jaz]
It sounds obvious, but all the times I’ve bought a camera, I never actually tested it there. I took it home and I used it, so, oh my God. I realize now how stupid I was. I got lucky, like I said, right? Because I bought from people that look like they’re photographers, right? But you’re right.

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
You test it then and there.

[Ashish]
And if macro lenses have been dropped, often the magnification won’t work correctly. So it’s maybe trying to set it up, framing your shot as you normally would. This is challenging because when you’re a newbie, you don’t know what you’re looking for sometimes. And maybe it might be a good idea to speak to some peers, speak to guys, people that are talking. I’m more than happy to have a look at shots that people have taken. And then sort of say, “Yeah, this is an adequately framed shot. This is what I’d expect, a 1 to 3 magnification.”

So maybe asking colleagues. That’s a good way. because if a macro lens has been dropped, it’s going to completely ruin the mechanism and the magnification won’t work correctly. So that’s another factor to consider. Just actually look at the exterior body. Are there obvious dents or scratches? How well has this been looked after? Has it been kept in a case?

Some photographers actually, they’re used to dropping the bodies of their cameras, right? This happens a lot. So they sometimes have cages, you can have a cage around the exterior body of the camera, so you know if it has been dropped, and if this person has a cage or something like that. Or a decent hard case, that it’s probably had less than fair wear and tear, I’d say.

[Jaz]
Lovely. And the last thing, Ash, is mobile dental photography. Like we can all be snobbish and say that, DSLR, mirrorless and whatnot, but you know what? These phones are getting really good. These phones are getting really good. And I think the problem has never really been that they’re not going to be good enough quality. It’s always been about how can we apply it to the mouth where there’s harsh shadows and lighting and that’s why you get all these little smile like I think is a brand–

[Ashish]
Correct? Yeah.

[Jaz]
Mobile photography units you can get on Ali Express and stuff. Are we there?

[Ashish]
I was speaking to a patient about this that was telling me that on the iPhone 12 Pro, there’s like films that are shot on this, right? There’s actually scenes and films that are shot, so it’s pretty amazing that you can do that. And I think that is a place for some mobile shots. But the thing that doesn’t sit so well with me is how professional does it look when you’re approaching a patient with a phone? Also–

[Jaz]
Man, just stick your practice verbal on it’s fine.

[Ashish]
Yeah. Covering some cling film, you’re all good. Also the other thing is from the GDPR point of view. I know we easily upload this stuff when going for Instagram. But from a GDPR point of view it’s better to have a differentiation from what’s stored on your phone and what’s stored as other data.

[Jaz]
Let’s say we have a dedicated practice phone that gets overridden from the GDPR issue, but is the quality there yet?

[Ashish]
The reason we’re talking about the quality of the lenses. The quality that that lens is going to capture and the focal length and the magnification. And the clearness and the crispness of the image, it’s not going to give you the same image realistically. So I’ve actually met Prof. Louis Hardan, he’s the guy that invented the MDP2 in the MDP and I had a good chat with him. I’ve got his book as well.

So I was reading through the book and I actually attended a lecture by him. These amazing videos of instruments that were like spinning. And he did it all on the MDP, all did it with his iPhone and MDP, so it was pretty cool what he could do. And also the nice thing about the MDP is that he’s almost created like a twin flash. He’s created polarized lens filters. So that is the best that you’re going to get from a mobile dental photography point of view. But my opinion and my view is you are still going to get better shots on a DSLR or a mirrorless camera.

[Jaz]
Maybe with something like an MDP, you can overcome it, but to get the reproducibility right–

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
Different shots might be trickier. Like to try and get a quadrant shot showing lower left second molar and first molar for like the prep, the fit, and having everything that’s going to be really tough, man.

[Ashish]
I mean, your posterior shots are exactly the point that I sort of made at the beginning. It’s about the light, right? It’s about getting that powerful exposure of light, which you’re just not going to get with a camera. And there’s so much more better quality images, and even the way that you’re holding your DSLR, the mechanics of how you’re holding that, you’re going to get a better frame shot, you’re going to create better angles. So if I’m want to invest in the good kit–

[Jaz]
Never say never, never say always, as I say. Therefore, I would say that the Invisalign app for example, works with a smile architect and they encourage you to use the phone to get those images right. Now do I also use the DSLR to get the images? I do it because I want to be nice before and after, so I totally agree with you. But I think to have a practice phone for occasional use, something quick, something that easy for your nurses to get to use as well. Eventually, before they start using DSR or mirrorless, I have to get used to not saying DSLR anymore, because obviously we’re moving towards mirrorless.

I think it has its place and depends on what kind of clinic you’re in and your workflow. It’s good to know that things like MDP are actually coming to an end. Can you just summarize the names? So if you were going to get your first mirrorless kit, what were the names of the three components of the budget kit and then the high-end kit and how much were they?

[Ashish]
Yeah, sure. So if we were going to get, this is a budget with us naturally talking about the fact that it could be a RIP DSLR. So I was kind of suggesting that maybe we consider mirrorless kits a more budget one that I would recommend or a mirrorless kit was the Sony A7 mark 3 body. With the Sony 90 millimeters 2.8 macro lens and maybe consider the corresponding Godox ring flash, which is the MFR76, and it’s the S plus that is the one that is optimized to work with Sony. And the rough budget that we were looking at is around kind of 1700 typically.

[Jaz]
And if you got a bit more cash, then what upgrade would you make?

[Ashish]
My rationale for sticking with the Sony macro lens is the fact that it has the barrel markings to help with the standardized photography. So my rationale for sticking with that lens is for that so that would still stay within my budget range. But I would then maybe invest a little bit more on the flash in the body. So we’re then looking at the A7 mark 4. This is the setup that I have. And then I would seriously consider a twin flash.

And the twin flash is the MF12DK1 and this is again, Godox. The Godox is optimized to work with the Sony setup. So in ETTL mode, it’s got special dental specific settings. So despite the surrounding light, you should still get good light exposure despite the ambient light settings.

[Jaz]
And like if you look at an image. Of A7 Mark 3 versus A7 Mark 4, is it going back to that same point you had earlier, it’s just difference in megapixels if you’re zooming in, otherwise the images are going to be very similar, or is it actually a mark difference considering if you assume the lighting conditions are the same and the lens are the same?

[Ashish]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
Are those two bodies giving you a different image.

[Ashish]
I think the image that you do in this capacity will be very similar. If you are getting into photography, you’re not using it for award submissions and you’re not using it for like lecturing, the image quality will look similar. A lot of what’s tweaking it is your lighting. So differences between ring and twin flash using diffusers, using soft boxes, that’s what’s going to add to a lot of it. So if you’ve got that lens, you’re going to get a really good quality image.

[Jaz]
Wonderful. And I imagine like in your courses you go through how to do different diffuses because so much we didn’t discuss Art parties, the famous kiwi shots, that kind of stuff. I’m sure you cover all that shall please. I’d love for you to tell us about your courses. How can we learn more from you my friend?

[Ashish]
Yeah, of course. So I’ve set up a really engaging course called the Magic of Dental Photography.

[Jaz]
I like the name.

[Ashish]
It’s my own kind of unique spin on things. Quite passionate card magician. I do quite a lot of things. So we have some magic interludes in the lecture, but I’ve kept it super hands-on, like pretty much we’ve got half an hour to 45 minutes of lecture component going over the basics of how to get a good exposure. ISO settings, aperture settings, what the optimum things are, but the hands-on exercises are how to use your user interface.

The benefit of the course is that you don’t have to have an existing camera. You can come in, we bring all the setups and the other big benefits is, yeah, we go over how to take quadrant shots, we go over how to take anterior shots. But the other quite unique thing is I paired up with A-dec. So the courses are held in A-dec showrooms, which means we actually do it in a live dental setting.

[Jaz]
Lovely.

[Ashish]
And we actually show you exactly how to optimize all of that. You’re welcome to bring nursing colleagues along as well. I think that’s a really important part of this is like a team approach. And we also go a little bit on how to transfer the image from the camera using wifi for instance, or how to kind of do a little bit of post-processing. Not a lot how to crop the photos and how to make them suitable for social media, if you like presentations, we cover a lot of that. So yeah, it’s a great fun course it’s a fun day and super hands-on. So, yeah.

[Jaz]
Absolutely. I’ll put the website in the show notes. The website is–

[Ashish]
Actually, I’m going to post it all on socials. But the website is going to be The Magic of Dentistry or the Magic of Dental Photography. That’s essentially going to be the website.

[Jaz]
Great. And we can follow you on Instagram with what handle?

[Ashish]
It is Dr. Ashish Sanje. Amazing.

[Jaz]
Ash, you absolutely smashed it. Thanks so much for covering in depth, giving really clear recommendations. What we love, we like just tell us what to buy, man. Alright, and you did that, thank you. And you uncovered the nuances and I think you made a very good argument.

That is just makes sense. The focus peaking and the weight and the fact that is the future. It’s like the diesel car rest in peace. DSLR. Can’t wait to make that funny video now. So Ash, thank you so much my friend. Pleasure to be here, man.

Well, there we have it guys. Rest in peace DSLR It was good while it lasted.

Now I’m still going to be keeping my DSLR when it gets dropped or gets broken or something needs to be repaired. That’s the point, I’m probably going to make the switch and upgrade to mirrorless. And then as usual, I then give my camera to my wife. And my poor wife always gets my hand-me-downs when it comes to, my dental goodies.

In fact, she’s using my initial camera that I bought, like 11 years ago, the one I talked about in this episode, the one I had to pretend to be a woman to get the lens, but you know what? It still works takes great photos, so I’m going to miss the DSLR. But mirrorless, as you guys found, is the future. Remember on the app, on the Protrusive Guidance App, head over to protrusive.co.uk/ultimate.

Join us, you can get all of the mask classes like Verti Prep Splonkers Quick and Slick Rubber Dam, Sectioning School, and now the 21 Day Photography Challenge for the absolute beginners. And of course, if you want to check out Ashish’s course which I would recommend to go on a hands-on course, it really elevates you, and check out the link in the show notes to catch that.

And this episode is indeed eligible for CPD or CE credits. We are a PACE approved provider. Again, once again, that’s on the protrusive guidance app by answering the quiz and reflecting, reflection is important. I want to thank you guys again for listening, watching all the way to the end. Make sure you subscribe wherever you are, make sure you subscribe, hit that button, and I appreciate you coming back. Always, I’ll catch you same time, same place next week. Bye for now.

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