How to Design and Iterate on Climbing Gyms

There are a number of stories that of people who die that are told in in free solo but I haven't seen movies about those guys. There was an amazing amazing talk about a climbing wall designer at NYU practice a few years back you remember that one were you there for that? So we had this person discuss how to design and iterate on these climbing gyms and climbing wall design and path design and how they figure out the difficulty. We should link to that video in the show notes because it was definitely recorded that's how I'm leading this actually.