I've never met Steve, which seems funny. I'm sure we've been in the same room a few times. But I'm slightly intimidated because he is one of the great guitar heroes to me. But I do have the first flat I ever lived in, in Notting Hill. There were five of us living there. And there was a few people from that pistol scene around. This was afterwards. It's like 1980. And someone knew Steve and someone said, I think Steve Jones has come around tonight. Hide your guitar. Well, I might not mention that. No, no, no. But his

skill at stealing things gave him the career he deserves. But also, you know, he didn't steal just from anybody. Oh, no. No, and we'll have those stories, I'm sure.

That's great. He didn't steal from anybody. Oh, no, he didn't. Only his own. It's the crazy, isn isn't it? It was only ever their own. Yeah, and it was his own, really, because it's other people in music. Well, I guess, OK, yeah. There's all sorts of ethical debates we could have here. But let's get him on. Welcome to The Rock on Tears. OK,

guys, I'm ready. You know this thing about the 10,000 hours of experience? When we recorded Arnold Lane, we'd done about 50 hours.

I love the fact he's dancing to it naked. Like, it's so hedonistic. It's so liberating. How brilliant.

We knew the moment that the five of us were in our room, like the first three chords, it was like, oh, we finally all

found each other. I'm in a band now. It's called Roxy Music. He started playing that as his main guitar. So it was his main guitar. So I just said, you can have it. Thank you guys for still being around, still making music, still being into it and doing this podcast. It's fabulous.

Everyone in the band was completely disengaged from

their partners while we made rumours.

That's a big tune for sure. I actually wrote that originally for Tina Turner. The Rock On Tours Podcast with Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt. Keep on rocking! Hey

Steve, thank you for coming in. Thanks for having us. So I'm probably, I tell you now, Guy, going to repeat myself somewhat in this podcast. Because he's our third pistol, isn't he? Oh, my God. That's pretty good. Because we've had Glenn. I mean, obviously, we haven't had Johnny yet. I think there was a chance of having Johnny. We were offered Johnny, to be honest. But then he started ranting about something. Oh, he did come on? No, he didn't. I was ranting just for ranting's

sake. He was doing one of his rants, and it was on the morning that we were getting him on. We just thought it's easier.

Well, hopefully you will. Well, you'll have all four. Are you still talking? Not really. No, I haven't spoke to him in years. 2008 was the last time I spoke to him. We did 30 shows around Europe. Yeah. Yeah, 2008. We did a bunch of festivals and all that, Japan, Australia. We ended up at Amherst Smith Odeon, Amherst Smith Apollo, and then we had one more show in the Basque country, and that was it. I was done after that. No more. It's too much. Was it? Too old, too much, not enough done.

But you're doing it again. I went to see you.

No, but this is different. This is so different. It's a different vibe, mate. Night and day. I mean, I loved it.

You were there, right? Yeah, I was there. Yeah, yeah. I came, Bushall. Oh, you were at Bushall? Yeah. Yeah, I was away for that and then I came to... It was just amazing.

And he's perfect. Yeah.

Perfect. He

doesn't try to be John. No. But what I was curious, if you was, I would like to have known if you was at the first show and then the last one. I think we got a lot better. I was at the last one. I think it got really good. Well, you didn't see the... No. No, so we got, no. I know. Very extensive notes. I know it's a lot better. In what way did it get better? Just tight. He's more comfortable. You know, we only rehearsed for about a week prior to that. I

think Frank has got this unbelievable charisma on stage. I mean, his energy is phenomenal.

He's playing

to blokes probably 20 years older than him, but mostly. Yeah, he's 40. He's crowd surfing on a sea of bald heads a lot of the time. He's amazing, and I just loved it. And when he did the crowd jump off of the balcony. I know. Okay,

to be fair, that's probably where it got better because he wasn't doing that at the Bush Hole.

Well, there was no place to do jump off a stairwell. No,

true, but he could have jumped into the audience. Well, he did. I didn't really. Okay, which night was not the same. Maybe it was a different

night. Yeah.

He loves it. Maybe you were the bald head he landed on.

He loves jumping in there. He's upset if he doesn't. It's like his thing.

It's body language. His body language is so right. I mean, he's not trying to impersonate John in any way. I mean, John had a completely different style when he first came around and he was like this Uriah Heep type character and snarly. But Frank is much more open and powerful, isn't he?

Well, because I thought Cookie, because I saw Cookie afterwards, and he said that's the one job that is a young man's game. For sure. The rest of you are kind of, you know.

It's still a young man's game doing what the three of us are doing. I'm like knackered after an hour and ten minutes.

No, but I think there's a thing that comes with age with some of that stuff, which is just authority. You know, the way you lay it down. There's something that's really commanding. Do you know what I mean? More than when you're just spunky youth. You're going to get a lot of smoke blown up your ass today. Okay. I brought my wipes. It's okay. But he,

Guy does stand by something that where he thinks you and... Yeah, of course. This is the hill that I will die on, is that you

and Mick Ralfs are the absolute definition of the English rock guitar sound. The Les Paul Marshall. You two, no one has ever done it better.

Wow, Mick Ralfs, okay. Which

is funny, because you started with the Fender Twin as well. Well, and you're a big Mott the Hoople guy.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And Bad Company. Yeah. You know, I liked the first couple of Bad Company albums. Great. But

it was a funny night for me, because I got in a cab to go, and this bloke sitting in the front, he was my age, but you could see he looked a little bit... Were you upstairs or downstairs? I was upstairs. Yeah. He looked a bit rock and roll, this guy. And he said, I saw you years ago. Where are you going? I said, I'm going to see the Pistols. Oh, fantastic. I saw you guys years ago. I said, where do you see us? And he said, I saw you as the gentry in a pub. He means like before Spandau Ballet. So I'm already back in the 70s. That's where I am. And then I get to this gig and this guy said, I saw you at rehearsals at Halligan's in 1978. So for some reason, I felt like I'd been sucked down a wormhole and I was about to see the Pistols. And when you went on stage and I saw the beer get strewn immediately into the, that's backlit. You go into that first, your guitar sound was amazing. And I was, if my wife had seen me, she may have divorced me at that point. I mean, I sang every single lyric for every single song. And I was just, I tell you, Steve, best show I've seen in years. It's fun. It's just fun. You know what I mean? And it comes across

as fun. Plus, we're playing it how it should be played. And you got this lunatic jumping around all over the place. And he brings a big element to the fun part of it, you know. We are going to go on the road next year. Yeah, you'd be mad not to. Yeah. No, I think so. Absolutely. But it's good because from what you're saying, it kind of sounds like

when you've been doing your reunions before, it kind of wasn't necessarily fun. I

couldn't wait for it to end. Out of two songs, I'd be like, you know. But there's something in

this music where it kind of feels now, especially, that it should be fun. Because you were always, you know, because you're such a great section, the three of you. Yeah. I always say, you know, Cookie by far had the best pocket of any of the drummers in those bands. You know, he sits back beautifully. Glenn's a great, you know. So the idea of that, you know, like with The Who, you know they're miserable, and that's fine, that works, but with you guys, it feels like it really needs to be fun now. Absolutely.

It's got to be fun for me at this stage of the game. But

how was it when that, in 90, was it 96?

That first

reunion. Filthy Luca, how did that feel?

It started out all right. You know, we did 100 shows, though, and it started to become a drag in the end, like it always does. I couldn't do that again at this stage. 100 shows? Well, no, I could do 100 shows, but it's got to be chill and good vibes. Yeah. I can't play a part of being Mr. Nice Guy just to keep the ball rolling, you know?

Yeah, I understand. And I think also getting Glenn back must have been,

was a nice, must have been nice. Yeah, he's a great bass player, you know. Well, he's always been there, Glenn, when we did reunions. We did a thing last year with Billy Idol, Generation Sex, with Tony James on bass. That was all right. Yeah, we had Tony on the show. Yeah, but this is great. It's a lot of fun. Because Tony was really, like,

thrilled about that band. Yeah. It was festivals and stuff. A

lot of festivals. Because I love the idea of it. Half Pistol songs, half Generation X, two Pistols, two Generation X guys. Yeah, it was fun. But that kind of got, I think we got the idea from that to this, like why don't we just do all pistol songs with a different singer because it ain't going to happen with John. So

how did you find him? It's

a weird story. I think Glenn's boy knew him and we were thinking, who can we get to sing? And his name came into the pot. I'd never heard of Frank before that, to be honest with

you. No, I had, but my son, who's in the music business, he knew him and he said, oh, he's fantastic. No, he's got a following. What was it like then, getting Frank in the room? Did you have a meeting first? Did you sort of meet in the pub? Well, I was in LA

and had a Zoom meeting with him, just to chat, you know, saying, blah, blah, we like this, and it was all good. And I'm like, okay, let's see if it works or not. We don't know. You don't know if it's going to work, but it just did. And it was easy. Did you fly over here? Yeah, we rehearsed here. And

he'd already learned everything? It

took him a little bit because he was still playing, doing his own shows at the time. But he's up to speed now.

It's a big difference,

40 than almost 70. It's a big leap. You know, all your faculties work at 40 still. You still have sex appeal. You know what I mean? No, for sure. Now you're just some old trollop right now. No one even looks at you. I'm going to be 65 tomorrow, Steve. You look good. You know what I mean?

65, that's a pensioner, isn't it? I remember there was this bloke who lived downstairs to us when I was a kid, and my dad said he's going to be 65. He's retiring that fellow next week. I said, really, Dad? Yeah. He'd be dead not long after that. It's what happens when people give up work. They get to 65 and they give up work and they die. What happened was, I think about two weeks after he was 65 and retired, he lost a foot. And that was really the beginning of the end. Within a year he was gone. That's funny. It's funny

you say that because I'm doing these shows with David Gilmore now. I'm 62 and it's and he's got this whole new band and they're all like 30s and stuff and it's when i started playing with him i was what 25 and so i'm used to be i was the kind of the young hot guy in the band and now i'm the old lag and it's really funny looking at those guys go god you're me you're who i was let's

talk about um because i mean i know you've told these stories a million times well i've read them in your book but that's what we're here for, really. I know. And just where you grew up. I mean, God, your book was, I found it really sad. Yeah, there is definitely sad bits, isn't it? Unforgettable imagery, you know, what you had to put up with abuse when you

were a

kid. Yeah, but if I'd have had good parents, I probably wouldn't be here now, you know. Just

while we're on that, what did you think of the TV?

Pistol? Yeah. 90% I loved it. I thought it got a bit too quick to the Pistols. Could have spent a little more time of my upbringing, seeing it was supposed to be on my book, you know, based on my book. But it's still good. It's still good. I thought so many acting was great. The guy who played Malcolm was brilliant and the guy who played John was good. Yeah. There was some good stuff.

Yeah, I loved it all. I didn't like Glenn's casting. No, that wasn't unfair.

Yeah, yeah. No, Glenn don't like it either.

Yeah.

Yeah. But

I thought it was fantastic, you know, and I think it was just, you know, it is a bit, what you did and what you created is a bit of social history. Yeah. And that story, that's not the last time that story will be told. Right,

for sure. Yeah.

You know, because it's still unique. Yeah. In every way. And what it influenced and how it, you know, created everything that went after it. Yeah. You know, whether it's whatever we did in the 80s, whatever grunge did, you know. I mean, it doesn't have to even sound like the music you made. It just told people and showed people how you can be in a band and how you, you know, ideas of presenting yourself. It

was like a time capsule. I think they nailed the time good in it, you know, mid-70s, early 70s, mid-70s. I thought that was good. You know, there was a few stupid errors like my guitar. I would have just gave them one of my guitars that looks like my guitar. They had some, like, horrible fridge-white Les Boy. It looked like it. I'm like, oh. Because I went over here when they were doing it. I was in L.A. I didn't want to come over with all that COVID luck so I stayed in LA. Because

that was Sylvain Sylvain's guitar, wasn't it?

The original, yeah.

At what stage did you get his guitar? Malcolm had it, didn't he?

Well, yeah, he was managing the dolls for 10 minutes. He had the dolls all dressed up in a red pattern leather and i don't think it went down that well and um which i thought they looked great the pictures i saw of it but it all kind of fell on fell apart real quick and i think well he did he brought the guitar back with him i don't know how that went down you know i don't if he just took it or... Because

Sylvain comes to know, sorry, if you don't mind, because my one proud thing is my first ever professional gig was I was in Sylvain Sylvain's band.

Was you? Yeah. After the Dolls. After the Dolls,

yeah. He set up a shop in London for a bit and started a band with his missus.

He was a sweet guy. He was a

lovely guy.

Yeah, I'd

like to know how he got the guitar actually. What,

how Malcolm got it?

Yeah. Maybe he thought he was owed some money because he spent money on them or something.

Yeah. Did Malcolm ever ask for it back? No,

he brought it over for me. There was me, Wally Nightingale, Cookie, and Glenn. We were rehearsing where the Thames BBC is, you know, right by Amherst Bridge.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Years ago, early on, like 74, 75, it was abandoned. And Wally's dad had the electrical contract, Lee Electrics, with the place, and they were kind of taking it apart. And they let us rehearse in there and it's beautiful sound, like where they'd have orchestras, you know, like one of them big.

Oh, my God, that's not like Denmark Street.

No. We all imagine. No, some of the other places we had to rent, yeah. It was unbelievable. We just left the gear set out and we'd just be there farting around.

Oh, my God, that's amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, it was really good. And then... How you got the gear, though, is quite a very cool story, right? Just up the street, I've got some of it. Amherst with Fodian, Amherst with Apollo. Oh, do I have to tell that story? What do

you do, really, Steve? Because, you know, it's like one of the great stories,

you know. Because we've had Woody Woodman Z, we've had Paul, so now we need the actual man behind

it. I was in the audience for the second night, I think it is the second night, yeah, yeah, the retirement night.

Yeah, I went the first night, and then they left all the gear up for the second night, and that's when I went on the stage and helped myself. They had some bloke, like fourth row, kipping. I'm waiting till he's a kip. I'm up the rafters, the Phantom of the Odeon. And he falls a kip, and I had a minivan. It wasn't mine. I had a minivan by the side. This is like two in the morning now. There's no one around but this one bloke. But at this point, he's like... And I'm just going on there, snipping, snipping. I've got all these amazing Neumann mics. I didn't know what they were. I didn't know anything. I didn't know they were recording, but all these Neumann mics were for recording. Of course,

because you'd just be using Shores, wouldn't you, for the gig? Yeah, the big

one, you know, the World of Fortune.

Because they were recording it for the film. Exactly. And

the Bowie one was great. It was a little short with his lipstick still on the edge of it. Oh, man. I wish I knew what I did for that. Gary's fainted, by the way.

Huh? I fainted. For our listeners, Gary's fainted.

What else did? Nothing of mix? No. Was that a respect thing? No. I didn't care. Are you kidding me? I got the bass, his head, I think it was a sun bass