This week, we get an inside look at the independent creator model of media with a two-part conversation: First, Ben and Max interview Substack co-founder and chief writing officer, Hamish McKenzie, about the platform’s appeal for the resistance on the left, their move into video, and why they turned down Elon Musk’s offer to buy them a few years ago. Then, former Mixed Signals co-host and newly independent creator, Nayeema Raza, joins to talk about her foray into the new media landscape, what she’s learned about the space, and why her show, Smart Girl Dumb Questions, isn’t on Substack.

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