The average new car monthly payment was bouncing around 400, 410 a month for most of the past decade. The economists at Cox by their measurements about 400 a month is what middle income households should be paying for a new car payment so that they can responsibly put some money away safer college education you know pay their mortgage health care bills the rest of itthat's sort of a responsible payment. Those payments stayed around that level for at least 10 years in fact they were lower than that for a long time and that's why you saw four or five thousand dollar rebates and financing deals.