Clearly,

these protests haven't come from nowhere. On the one hand, there's this festering discontent about Erdogan's rule, And that has clearly fed into the rising popularity of Imamoglu. Hannah Lucinda-Smith is a journalist also based in Istanbul. She wrote a book all about Turkey's current president. It's called Erdogan Rising, The Battle for the Soul of Turkey. So Hannah, let's start with the two figures that are at the centre of all of this. President Recep Erdogan and Istanbul's mayor, Ekrem Imamoglu.

Yeah, I mean, in one sense, they are very different. Erdogan, of course, is the leader who's defined Turkey in the 21st century. He became prime minister in 2003. In 2014, he became president. He's not been out of power in all of that time. But he also started as the mayor of Istanbul back in the 1990s. And at that time, he was the rebel voice. The government in Turkey at that time was staunchly secular. It repressed conservative Muslims in much the same way that Erdogan now is repressing secular Turks and Kurds. And he was also sent to prison while he was mayor of Istanbul. And when he came out, his popularity had soared. And that's what brought him into national office. Now, Ekrem Imamoglu is, of course, ideologically very, very different. He's part of the CHP, the Republican People's Party, which is the main opposition party here in Turkey. It's a secular party. But Imamoglu has also used the mayorship of Istanbul to really launch himself as the biggest challenge to Erdogan in these past two and a half decades. He took the mayorship first in 2019. Imamoglu was the first person to really beat Erdogan at the ballot box. And since then, his popularity has grown. And, you know, the timing of Imamoglu's arrest, it came just before he was about to be announced as the CHP's candidate for the upcoming presidential elections. And the fact that he has been arrested now, that's absolutely to do with the threat that he poses to Erdogan. Do

you think that this kind of emerging political figure in Imamoglu, is he the biggest threat that we have seen so far to President Erdogan? Absolutely. And, you know, that's partly down to, you know, the fact

that Imamoglu, again, is so similar in many ways. He's also from the Black Sea region of Turkey, as Erdogan is, you know, the Black Sea is known for being very religious, very nationalist, kind of very macho, tough guy image in those towns and cities along the Black Sea. He also has this very bombastic speaking style, you know, Imamoglu really kind of commands a crowd in the way that Erdogan does as well, which is something that's very popular in Turkish politics. All the Turkish leaders, they all sort of come from this very like macho nationalist perspective. It's something that plays really well here. He's managed to extend his profile and reach not just in Istanbul, but in Turkey and even outside Turkey as well. I mean, it's incredibly, there's also been protests in London, in Germany, you know, Turks who live there also protesting. So that's just a sign of the extent of Imam Ali's appeal and just why Erdogan is so scared of him. So

clearly, he is quite a competent political figure, as you've just described. Is there also something about the timing? We know Erdogan is now in his third term, even though according to Turkey's political rules, its constitution, he shouldn't really be in a third term. Do you think the context of all of this is that Turkey's population is ready for a change?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's really interesting to draw parallels between the protests that are happening now and the protests that were happening 12 years ago, the Gezi Park protests, which is the last time that there was really this kind of, you know, mass street movements against Erdogan. Back in 2013, there was a lot of kind of, you know, pent up political dissatisfaction amongst the youth, particularly amongst sort of leftist youth, secular youth. They didn't like the direction that Erdogan was going in, a kind of more Islamist direction. But economically, the country was doing quite well. Now the context is completely different. Turkey's been in this grinding economic crisis for the past five years. People's purchasing power has absolutely crumbled. Inflation at some point was hitting 80%. So people are really suffering on that scale now. But also, Erdogan has grasped a lot more power as well since 2013. He's, you know, in 2013, basically kicked out any dissenters within his party. Then after the coup attempt against him in 2016, he kicked out dissenters within the state, hundreds of thousands, civil servants, judges, police, you know, soldiers kicked out from their jobs, in many cases put in prison as well. He's got control of the media. There's very, very few opposition media channels left. And, you know, the numbers of police also have just been boosted. They have about 50,000 a year for the past five years. So, yeah, I think people have come to a point where they're absolutely ready for some kind of change. But also people are quite worried about what direction the protests might take.