The Lines in the Sand of the Thirties

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In the mid-1930s, people in Europe were terrified of a land war breaking out. But they differed on how best to prevent it. John Gunther was disgusted that Britain wasn't going to defend Abyssinia. H.R. Knickerbacher thought Mussolini needed to be stopped so aggression from fascist dictators wouldn't be tolerated.

An authoritarian ruler moves to invade a smaller country and take it for himself. People around the world rally to that country’s defense. European and American leaders grapple with how to stop the invasion and prevent a wider war. But this isn’t Russia and Ukraine in 2022. It’s Italy and Ethiopia in 1935. Rachel Maddow and Isaac-Davy Aronson explore what we can learn from the very different choices made decades ago, when the world faced a similar challenge.

Featuring:

Deborah Cohen, the Richard W. Leopold Professor of History at Northwestern University, and author of Last Call At The Hotel Imperial: The Reporters Who Took on a World at War.

Susan Pedersen, the Gouverneur Morris Professor of History at Columbia University, and author of The Guardians: The League of Nations and the Crisis of Empire.

Anne Applebaum, staff writer at The Atlantic, and author of Twilight of Democracy: The Seductive Lure of Authoritarianism.