E6: "Clients don't pay for crazy, they pay for effective": Building custom software at Clay scale | Patrick Spychalski
GTM Engineer School Podcast
Assembling Stacks: Clay, n8n, and Lovable
How Patrick picks best-in-class tools per use case, his 'Avengers' assembly approach, and why Clay (enrichment), n8n (workflows) and Lovable (vibe-coded interfaces) form a powerful minimal toolkit.
About our guest — Patrick Spychalski
Patrick Spychalski is co-founder of The Kiln, a skunk works collective of GTM experts, data scientists, and former Clay employees that turns messy RevOps data into revenue engines for SaaS teams. He's a bonafide Clay OG who spent two years at Clay running their early partnership program and now drops marathon-length Clay table teardowns on LinkedIn.
Beyond his agency work, Patrick founded and runs Unique Market, a web store showcasing men's vintage designer and avant-garde fashion. This combination of technical GTM expertise and creative taste gives him a unique perspective on building both functional and aesthetically compelling solutions.
Patrick's approach centers on assembling "the Avengers" of best-in-class tools for each specific use case, while maintaining a ruthless focus on business value over technical complexity. His recent viral Lovable integration that builds custom software programmatically at scale exemplifies his philosophy of pushing GTM engineering boundaries while solving real business problems.
Core takeaways
* The "Avengers assembly" approach — finding best-in-class tools for specific use cases rather than one-size-fits-all solutions
* Credit engineering mastery — how strategic API key usage can reduce Clay project costs from 60K to 7-10K
* The Lovable breakthrough — building custom software programmatically at scale through Clay integrations
* CRM data cleaning as foundation — why enrichment and data quality must come before any advanced workflows
* N8N vs Clay decision framework — when to use workflow automation versus enrichment-focused tools
* MCP servers as emerging skill — why Model Context Protocol development is becoming essential
* Value-first philosophy — clients pay for effectiveness, not complexity or flashy demonstrations
* The technical skills spectrum — from beginner-friendly Lovable to engineer-focused Cursor for vibe coding
Top quotes
Best Definition of GTM Engineering: "In my mind, a go-to-market engineer is somebody who has both highly technical ability and the tools required to run go-to-market systems, specifically automated go-to-market systems, as well as the general strategy and intuition of somebody who would be in a go-to-market leadership position."
On His Background: "I actually wasn't in sales prior to Clay existing. And so I actually got into sales at the same time as discovering Clay... I can't really imagine having to go and individually prospect and research and reach out to people. I've actually never had to do that."
The Avengers Approach: "I think the best way to approach it initially is just figuring out what the best tool for any given use case would be. And it very quickly allows you to assemble the Avengers for a specific client."
On Clay's Power: "Clay feels like cheating almost... It's obviously, in my opinion, the best one. I don't think there's a close second... it's just an aggregate of every enrichment tool. Fundamentally, that's what Clay is."
Credit Engineering: "You can literally, if your client's planning on using Clay regardless of whether they hire you or not, you can make the money they're paying you back just in recommending a specific set of API keys."
The Value Philosophy: "Clients don't pay for crazy. They pay for effective... You're not getting hired to build crazy workflows that people think are cool. You're building workflows that actually add value."
On Learning: "Think about these tools as a value vehicle and not a... just a Lego set that you build for fun."
Referenced tools and resources
* Clay: Primary enrichment platform and ecosystem orchestrator ("aggregate of every enrichment tool")
* N8N: Workflow automation platform for AI agents and trigger-based processes
* Lovable: Vibe coding tool for building custom software and dashboards with natural language
* HubSpot: Current preferred CRM with enterprise support and integration capabilities
* Attio: Future CRM bet as it develops enterprise features
* Claude: Preferred LLM for writing tasks due to superior voice and tonality
* HG Insights: Expensive but powerful technographics integration within Clay (8 credits per run)
* Crust Data: Live LinkedIn enrichment scraper with higher accuracy than static lists
* Exa.ai: Underrated natural language lead sourcing tool for niche prospect finding
* Cursor: Engineer-focused vibe coding platform for technical development
* Fathom: Current call transcript tool (via Zapier integration despite limitations)
* MCP: Emerging requirement for advanced GTM engineering integrations
Timestamps
* (00:01) Introduction to Patrick Spychalski and The Kiln background
* (01:32) Defining GTM engineering: Technical ability plus strategic intuition
* (02:20) Evolution question: Never knowing sales before GTM engineering tools
* (03:27) Lightning Round: Tool preferences and rapid-fire recommendations
* (06:44) System design approach: Assembling the Avengers of best-in-class tools
* (12:58) Favorite workflow: The viral Lovable custom software generation table
* (16:16) Credit engineering: How API keys saved clients 50K+ on Clay projects
* (19:55) Emerging skills: N8N, MCP servers, and vibe coding tool spectrum
* (24:22) N8N vs Clay use cases: When to use each platform
* (28:22) Learning resources: From GTM Engineer School to free YouTube content
* (29:45) Practical advice: Focus on value creation over technical complexity
* (31:23) Where to connect with Patrick on LinkedIn and The Kiln
How to connect with Patrick
* The Kiln
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