The Impossible Conversation

I think the main thing is it seems impossible because conversations require rational discourse, they require reason. And if you deny the validity of reason in the public square, then you can't have a conversation about racism. But there are these two tendencies to deny reason. One's modivism, and then we'll call the other one say, powerism or something. So those are some good ways to kind of describe at least at the outset why the conversation is hard.