When I think about conflict, I'm not somebody who loves conflict. Most people don't. But if in the process of that, there's, you know, the stakes are deeply meaningful to me. And have we been transformed in some meaningful way by the process? You bring up contempt as close to being something that is non-recoverable from as anything. With contempt, there's a sense in which you have given up on the other person or the other side.

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