The Early Adopters Visionary Part of the Lifecycle

A lot of them were in the infrastructure space or what we now call the developer experience space. There were folks that were to your point, Mattie really focused on the problems, not the solutions. And it's interesting to even look as in, often there is a pain that triggers the creation of that team. The actual implementation to well, maybe where we are in the adoption lifecycle, if we're sort of looking at the crossing, the chasm kind of thing.