S03E30 - Matt Huber & Kohei Saito on Growth, Progress and Left Imaginaries
Future Histories
Wachstum neu denken
In diesem Kapitel wird das traditionelle Wachstumskonzept, insbesondere das Bruttoinlandsprodukt (BIP), kritisch hinterfragt. Die Gesprächspartner plädieren für eine qualitative Bewertung des Wachstums und fordern einen 'Degrowth'-Ansatz, um schädliche Auswirkungen auf Umwelt und Gesellschaft zu vermeiden.
Kohei Saito and Matt Huber discuss degrowth communism, socialist ecomodernism and their respective views on growth, natural limits, technology and progress.
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If you are interested in democratic economic planning, these resources might be of help:
Democratic planning – an information website
https://www.democratic-planning.com/
Sorg, C. & Groos, J. (eds.)(2025). Rethinking Economic Planning. Competition & Change Special Issue Volume 29 Issue 1.
https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/ccha/29/1
Groos, J. & Sorg, C. (2025). Creative Construction - Democratic Planning in the 21st Century and Beyond. Bristol University Press. [for a review copy, please contact: amber.lanfranchi[at]bristol.ac.uk]
https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/creative-construction
International Network for Democratic Economic Planning
Democratic Planning Research Platform:
https://www.planningresearch.net/
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Shownotes
Kohei Saito at University of Tokyo:
https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/people/k0001_04217.html
Saito is chair of the “Beyond Capitalism: War Economy and Democratic Planning” Program at The New Institute:
https://thenew.institute/en/programs/beyond-capitalism-war-economy-and-democratic-planning
Matt Huber at Syracuse University:
https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/directory/matthew-t-huber
Saito, K. (2024). Slow Down: How Degrowth Communism can save the Earth. W&N.
https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/kohei-saito/slow-down/9781399612999/
Saito, K. (2023). Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of Degrowth Communism. Cambridge University Press.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/marx-in-the-anthropocene/D58765916F0CB624FCCBB61F50879376
Saito, K. (2017). Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism: Capital, Nature, and the Unfinished Critique of Political Economy. Monthly Review Press.
https://monthlyreview.org/product/karl_marxs_ecosocialism/
Huber, M. T. (2022). Climate Change as Class War: Building Socialism on a Warming Planet. Verso Books.
Huber, M. T. (2013). Lifeblood: Oil, Freedom, and the Forces of Capital. University of Minnesota Press.
https://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816677856/lifeblood/
Matt Huber’s and Leigh Philipps’s review of Saito’s recent work:
https://jacobin.com/2024/03/kohei-saito-degrowth-communism-environment-marxism
on Huber’s critique of degrowth:
https://jacobin.com/2023/07/degrowth-climate-change-economic-planning-production-austerity
more articles on Jacobin by Huber:
https://jacobin.com/author/matt-huber
Matt Huber’s medium blog:
https://medium.com/@Matthuber78
On Ecomodernism:
https://thebreakthrough.org/ecomodernism
Matt Huber’s stance on the term “Ecomodernism”:
https://medium.com/@Matthuber78/clarifications-on-ecomodernism-3b159cafb836
on Vaclav Smil:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaclav_Smil
chapter on machinery and modern industry in Marx’s Capital Vol.1:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm
on Eco-Marxism/Ecosocialism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism
Reading guide on Ecology & Marxism by Andreas Malm:
https://www.historicalmaterialism.org/ecology-marxism-andreas-malm/
on GDP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
Schmelzer, M. (2016). The Hegemony of Growth: The OECD and the Making of the Economic Growth Paradigm. Cambridge University Press.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/hegemony-of-growth/A80C4DF19D804C723D55A5EFE7A447FD
on the „Green New Deal”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal
Pollin, R. (2018) De-Growth vs. a Green New Deal. New Left Review Issue 112.
https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii112/articles/robert-pollin-de-growth-vs-a-green-new-deal
Hickel, J. (2020). What does degrowth mean? A few points of clarification. Globalizations, 18(7), 1105–1111.
on Malthusianism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism
Harvey, D. (1974). Population, Resources, and the Ideology of Science. Economic Geography, 50(3), 256–277.
https://www.uky.edu/~tmute2/GEI-Web/password-protect/GEI-readings/harvey%20population.pdf
the „Limits to Growth” report from 1972:
https://www.clubofrome.org/publication/the-limits-to-growth/
Hickel, J. (2019) Degrowth: A Theory of Radical Abundance. Real-World Economics Review Issue 87.
on Planetary Boundaries:
https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/planetary-boundaries.html
Earl C. Ellies:
on “Decoupling”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-economic_decoupling
Christophers, B. (2024). The Price is Wrong: Why Capitalism Won’t Save the Planet. Verso Books.
on the Haber-Bosch Process:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
Smil, V. (2004). Enriching the Earth: Fritz Haber, Carl Bosch, and the Transformation of World Food Production. MIT Press.
https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262693134/enriching-the-earth/
Smil, V. (2016). Power Density: A Key to Understanding Energy Sources and Uses. MIT Press.
https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/4023/Power-DensityA-Key-to-Understanding-Energy-Sources
on Mining and the Green Energy Transition:
Marx’s letter to Vera Zasulich:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/zasulich/index.htm
Marx’s “Preface” to “A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy”:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm
Future Histories Episodes on Related Topics
S03E23 | Andreas Malm on Overshooting into Climate Breakdown
S03E03 | Planning for Entropy on Sociometabolic Planning
S03E02 | George Monbiot on Public Luxury
https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e02-george-monbiot-on-public-luxury/
S02E55 | Kohei Saito on Degrowth Communism
https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e55-kohei-saito-on-degrowth-communism/
S02E47 | Matt Huber on Building Socialism, Climate Change & Class War
S02E18 | Drew Pendergrass and Troy Vettese on Half Earth Socialism
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Episode Keywords
#MattHuber, #KoheiSaito, #Podcast, #JanGroos, #Interview, #FutureHistories, #futurehistoriesinternational, #FutureHistoriesInternational, #Degrowth, #Socialism, #Capitalism, #GreenNewDeal, #ClimateJustice, #WorkingClass, #PoliticalEconomy, #ClimateCrisis, #FossilCapitalism, #EcoSocialism, #Marx, #DemocraticEconomicPlanning, #Class, #ClassStruggle, #DemocraticPlanning, #DegrowthCommunism, #PostCapitalism, #ClimatePolitics, #RadicalEcology, #JustTransition, #Prometheanism, #Communism, #Progress
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