Conversational Conversations With Paul Bloom

Why do people train for a marathon? Listen to sad music? Eat really spicy food? All of these activities induce a painful response, yet they also bring us pleasure. We often set ourselves up for negative experiences because it primes us for positive ones further down the line. There is a balance, a sweet spot if you will, between the amount of pleasure we experience and the suffering that it takes to get us there.

World-renowned psychologist and author Paul Bloom, joins us on this episode to discuss his most recent book The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning (https://amzn.to/3Kmpweh). He challenges our definition of a fulfilling life, and why we actually NEED suffering to be part of it.

We are so conditioned in our culture to only seek out pleasure that even the notion of reading about suffering was not particularly appealing to us, well to Tim - it turns out Kurt might be somewhat of a benign masochist! But from the get-go, Paul’s compelling narrative convinced us that suffering can be motivating. Listen in and tell us if you think there is a sweet spot, and then reach out to us on email (info@behavioralgrooves.com), on Twitter (@behavioralgroov) or write us a quick review about the show (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behavioral-grooves-podcast/id1303870112). Thanks!

(4:40) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:24) Why do we choose suffering?

(11:24) Do we really only seek pleasure?

(13:40) We often have mistaken ideas about what we want.

(16:16) Looking beyond happiness; what we actually pursue for a meaningful life.

(22:24) How can suffering help pleasure?

(24:59) How being in a state of flow explains the sweet spot.

(28:27) Why are people driven to climb Everest? 

(32:32) What are the unpleasant sensations that people do not pursue?

(34:37) Pain then pleasure or pleasure then pain?

(36:13) The effect of the peak-end rule.

(38:40) Why do we want to listen to sad music? 

(45:11) Grooving Session discussing how Paul’s work can improve our lives.

© 2022 Behavioral Grooves

“The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning” by Paul Bloom: https://amzn.to/3Kmpweh 

Shaquille O’Neal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaquille_O%27Neal

“Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind” by Wilson et al (2014): https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1250830?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed 

Paul Rozin: https://web.sas.upenn.edu/rozin/

“Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience” by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: https://amzn.to/3qyLRgB  

“A psychologically rich life: Beyond happiness and meaning” by Oishi and Westage (2021): https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2021-74886-001

“Anticipation and the valuation of delayed consumption.” by George Loewenstein (1987): https://www.jstor.org/stable/2232929 

Episode 67, George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom:  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/

“When More Pain Is Preferred to Less: Adding a Better End” by Kahneman et al (1993): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9280.1993.tb00589.x 

Jeremy Bentham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham 

Richard Tedeschi, The Science of Post-Traumatic Growth: https://scottbarrykaufman.com/podcast/richard-tedeschi-the-science-of-post-traumatic-growth/ 

The Prophet by Khalil Gibran: https://amzn.to/329fN9O 

Episode 207, Jonathan Mann: Is it Possible to Design an Experience? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/jonathan-mann-is-it-possible-to-design-an-experience/

Adele “Someone Like You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLQl3WQQoQ0 

Alice Cooper “Poison”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq4j1LtCdww 

Pink Floyd “On The Turning Away”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojf18wT_Xtk 

Eminem “Lose Yourself”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yhyp-_hX2s 

The Proclaimers “I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0 

Joan Armatrading “Consequences”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otq9VBa6a0s 

David Bowie & Nine Inch Nails “Hurt”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhhEHuChFck&ab_channel=redsails2008 

Billy Joel “Piano Man”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0 

Violent String Quartet “Bad Guy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUbCwmBmgE