AI-powered
podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
7min chapter
192: What to do with the myth of Polyvagal Theory
Your Parenting Mojo - Respectful, research-based parenting ideas to help kids thrive
Exploring Indigenous Perspectives and the Limitations of Science
This chapter delves into the insights offered by indigenous thinking, as discussed in the book 'Sand Talk', and questions how science can integrate reciprocal relationships and indigenous perspectives. It also critically examines the application and limitations of Polyvagal Theory (PBT) and highlights the lack of scientific evidence supporting Dr. Porges' safe and sound protocol (SSP) for traumatic responses.
00:00
Transcript
Episode notes
Polyvagal Theory is everywhere these days.
Psychologists talk about it; parenting coaches talk about it; if you’re in
the mental health field you’re probably referring to polyvagal theory in some way. So one would assume that there’s lots of evidence for it, right? Well, maybe. Maybe not.
In this episode I dig into the foundational principles of Polyvagal Theory and find that there's a lot less evidence supporting it than you might think, given how many places it's used.
So what's going on? Is it legit? Should we be using a different theory to understand our experience instead?
But all may not be lost! Maybe there are aspects of the theory that we can still use...the episode suggests a path forward on this.
Taming Your Triggers
Do you often find yourself caught in the whirlwind of your child's challenging behavior?
Are you seeking ways to foster calm and connection in your parenting journey, even during the most trying moments?
Look no further—Taming Your Triggers will help.
If you:
- Often feel triggered by your child’s difficult behavior…
- Want to find out how to get your child to stop doing the thing that drives you up the wall
- Know you want to respond calmly to your child but can’t seem to do it in the moment…
- Want to parent with love and connection even on the most stressful days
- Feel like gentle parenting techniques won’t ‘work’ with your child
Then Taming Your Triggers is for you. This workshop will empower you with the tools, insights, and support to navigate the ups and downs of parenting with confidence. It helps in all relationships - spouses and parents/in-laws too!
Sign up for the waitlist and we'll let you know once enrollment re-opens. Click the image below to learn more.
Jump to Highlights
Other episodes referenced:
018: The Spiritual Child: Possibly exaggerated, conclusions uncertain104: How to help a child to overcome anxiety
132: How implicit bias affect my child (Part 2)References:
Agger, I. (2015). Calming the mind: Healing after mass atrocity in Cambodia. Transcultural Psychiatry 52(4), 543-560.
American Museum of Natural History (n.d.). What is a theory? Author. Retrieved from: https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/darwin/evolution-today/what-is-a-theory
Barret, L.D. (2017). How emotions are made: The secret life of the brain. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.
Barrett, L.D. (2023, March 25). Peripheral physiological changes during emotion. Chapter 1 endnote 26 from How emotions are made: The secret life of the brain. Author. Retrieved from: https://how-emotions-are-made.com/notes/Peripheral_physiological_changes_during_emotion#cite_note-8
Benish, S. G., Quintana, S., & Wampold, B. E. (2011). Culturally adapted psychotherapy and the legitimacy of myth: a direct-comparison meta-analysis. Journal of counseling psychology, 58(3), 279.
Bird, A. (2021). Understanding the replication crisis as a base rate fallacy. The British Journal for the Philosophy of Science. Retrieved from: https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/56560473/Replication-base-rate-fallacy_FINAL-libre.pdf?1526290158=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DUnderstanding_the_Replication_Crisis_as.pdf&Expires=1689372953&Signature=HnUWKVi40YZrjWv4RyYGjB8GSt2wRxNSyYdmUe3wNG~NwYkkbMv0rG0Y~PWotaD7xlq6b9DcfQXnwx1ddLVT7nkmX4teXXs9B7iI16d7JnEKVUAzcVXBOuVajgdMQXR~3y1fq1xNfMUXBE-zsqHNV3bSQdReBEMvuIr-l9pNFs~PiSnAaeUe91b-eYy5QCEzvKrTsGN~R-Y~qfEXb3NecIO6kokPLph9H4w0K7cpvu7x72RoBqBT3yIsQmQ5MAoGDrBFW0FnKZuJVUF1LlHBeSGC1ToTJ03feIhLc9OkJJB8i-s3crTxvN5BFdq9oKh-qRUSMAHRE6zmCG-XQ9jR8w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA
Brennan, M.A., Emmerling, M.E., & Whelton, W.J. (2014). Emotion-focused group therapy: Addressing self-criticism in the treatment of eating disorders. Counseling & Psychotherapy Research 15(1), 67-75.
Das, A. (2021). Testing the Longitudinal, Bidirectional Relation Between Respiratory Sinus Arrythmia and Perceived Emotion Regulation (Doctoral dissertation, Miami University). Retrieved from: https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=miami161688520539524&disposition=inline
deVries, Y.A., Roest, A.M., Turner, E.H., & de Jonge, P. (2019). Hiding negative trials by pooling them: A secondary analysis of pooled-trials publication bias in FDA-registered antidepressant trials. Psychological Medicine 49, 2020-2026.
Doody, J.S., Burghardt, G., & Dinets, V. (2023). The evolution of sociality and the polyvagal theory. Biological Psychology 180, 108569.
Frank, J. D., & Frank, J. B. (1993). Persuasion and healing. Baltimore, MD: Johns Hopkins University Press.
Grossman, P., & Taylor, E.W. (2007). Toward understanding respiratory sinus arrhythmia: Relations to cardiac vagal tone, evolution and biobehavioral functions. Biological Psychology 74, 263-285.
Ekman, P., Sorenson, E.R., & Friesen, W.V. (1969). Pan-cultural elements in facial displays of emotion. Sicnce, New Series, 164(3875), 86-88.
Ekman, P., & Friesen, E.V. (1971). Constants across cultures in the face and emotion. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 17(2), 124-129.
Graziano, P., & Derefinko, K. (2013). Cardiac vagal control and children’s adaptive functioning: A meta-analysis. Biological Psychology 94(1), 22-37.
Hanazawa, H. (2022). Polyvagal Theory and its clinical potential: An overview. Brain Nerve 74(8), 1011-1016.
Harmer, C.J., Duman, R.S., & Cowen, P.J. (2017). How do antidepressants work? New perspectives for refining treatment approaches. Lancet Psychiatry 4(5), 409-418.
Kawai, H., Kishimoto, M., Okahisa, Y., Sakamoto, S., Terada, S., & Takaki, M. (2023). Initial outcomes of the Safe and Sound Protocol on Patients with Autism Spectrum Disorder: Exploratory Plot Study. International Journal of Environmental Research and Publich Health 20(6), 4862.
Laborde, S., Moseley, E., & Mertgen, A. (2018). A unifying conceptual framework of factors associated to cardiac vagal tone. Heliyon 4(12), e01002.
Lehrer, P. (2013). How does heart rate variability biofeedback work? Resonance, the baroreflex, and other mechanisms. Biofeedback 41(1), 26-31.
Luck, A. (2022, October 29). Polyvgal Theory: A critical appraisal. Author. Retrieved from: https://alyssaluck.com/polyvagal-theory-a-critical-appraisal/
McCraty, R. (2011). Coherence: Bridging personal, social and global health. Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine 53(3), 85-102.
Poli, A., Gemignani, A., Soldani, F., & Miccoli, M. (2021). A systematic review of a polyvagal perspective on embodied contemplative practices as promoters of cardiorespiratory coupling and traumatic stress recovery for PTSD and OCD: Research methodologies and state of the art. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health 18(22), 11778.
Polyvagal Institute (2023, February). Polyvagal Theory: Summary, Premises, and Current Status. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org/_files/ugd/8e115b_f8f82f01065b41dc85e7698fd4f99818.pdf?index=true
Porges, S. (2021). Polyvagal Theory: A biobehavioral journey to sociality. Comprehensive Psychoneuroendocrinology 7, 100069.
Porges, S.W. (2007). The polyvagal perspective. Biological Psychology 74(2), 116-143.
Porges, S. (1995). Orienting in a defensive world: Mammalian modifications of our evolutionary heritage. A Polyvagal Theory. Psychophysiology 32, 301-318.
Rutherford, B.R., & Roose, S.P. (2013). A model of placebo response in antidepressant clinical trials. The American Journal of Psychiatry 170(7), 723-733.
Shaffer, F., McCraty, R., & Zerr, C.L. (2014). A healthy heart is not a metronome: An integrative review of the heart’s anatomy and heart rate variability. Frontiers in Psychology 5, 1040.
Siegel, E. H., Sands, M. K., Condon, P., Chang, Y., Dy, J., Quigley, K. S., & Barrett, L. F. 2018. "Emotion fingerprints or emotion populations? A meta-analytic investigation of autonomic features of emotion categories." Psychological Bulletin, 144(4), 343-393.
Turner, E. H., Cipriani, A., Furukawa, T. A., Salanti, G., & de Vries, Y. A. (2022). Selective publication of antidepressant trials and its influence on apparent efficacy: Updated comparisons and meta-analyses of newer versus older trials. PLoS medicine, 19(1), e1003886.
Unyte (n.d.). Polyvagal Theory: Start with safety. Author. Retrieved from: https://integratedlistening.com/polyvagal-theory/
Unyte (2023, June 22). Disrupting overactive survival reactions with the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP). Author. Retrieved from: https://integratedlistening.com/case-study/disrupting-overactive-survival-reactions-with-the-safe-and-sound-protocol-ssp/
Yasmin (2023). What is the hierarchy ladder in Polyvagal Theory? Polyvagal Teen. Retrieved from: https://polyvagalteen.com/polyvagal-theory-101/what-is-the-hierarchy-ladder-in-polyvagal-theory/
American Museum of Natural History (n.d.). What is a theory? Author. Retrieved from: https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/darwin/evolution-today/what-is-a-theory
Barret, L.D. (2017). How emotions are made: The secret life of the brain. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.
Barrett, L.D. (2023, March 25). Peripheral physiological changes during emotion. Chapter 1 endnote 26 from How emotions are made: The secret life of the brain. Author. Retrieved from: https://how-emotions-are-made.com/notes/Peripheral_physiological_changes_during_emotion#cite_note-8
Benish, S. G., Quintana, S., & Wampold, B. E. (2011). Culturally adapted psychotherapy and the legitimacy of myth: a direct-comparison meta-analysis. Journal of counseling psychology, 58(3), 279.
Bird, A. (2021). Understanding the replication crisis as a base rate fallacy. The British Journal for the Philosophy of Science. Retrieved from: https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/56560473/Replication-base-rate-fallacy_FINAL-libre.pdf?1526290158=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DUnderstanding_the_Replication_Crisis_as.pdf&Expires=1689372953&Signature=HnUWKVi40YZrjWv4RyYGjB8GSt2wRxNSyYdmUe3wNG~NwYkkbMv0rG0Y~PWotaD7xlq6b9DcfQXnwx1ddLVT7nkmX4teXXs9B7iI16d7JnEKVUAzcVXBOuVajgdMQXR~3y1fq1xNfMUXBE-zsqHNV3bSQdReBEMvuIr-l9pNFs~PiSnAaeUe91b-eYy5QCEzvKrTsGN~R-Y~qfEXb3NecIO6kokPLph9H4w0K7cpvu7x72RoBqBT3yIsQmQ5MAoGDrBFW0FnKZuJVUF1LlHBeSGC1ToTJ03feIhLc9OkJJB8i-s3crTxvN5BFdq9oKh-qRUSMAHRE6zmCG-XQ9jR8w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA
Brennan, M.A., Emmerling, M.E., & Whelton, W.J. (2014). Emotion-focused group therapy: Addressing self-criticism in the treatment of eating disorders. Counseling & Psychotherapy Research 15(1), 67-75.
Das, A. (2021). Testing the Longitudinal, Bidirectional Relation Between Respiratory Sinus Arrythmia and Perceived Emotion Regulation (Doctoral dissertation, Miami University). Retrieved from: https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=miami161688520539524&disposition=inline
deVries, Y.A., Roest, A.M., Turner, E.H., & de Jonge, P. (2019). Hiding negative trials by pooling them: A secondary analysis of pooled-trials publication bias in FDA-registered antidepressant trials. Psychological Medicine 49, 2020-2026.
Doody, J.S., Burghardt, G., & Dinets, V. (2023). The evolution of sociality and the polyvagal theory. Biological Psychology 180, 108569.
Frank, J. D., & Frank, J. B. (1993). Persuasion and healing. Baltimore, MD: Johns Hopkins University Press.
Grossman, P., & Taylor, E.W. (2007). Toward understanding respiratory sinus arrhythmia: Relations to cardiac vagal tone, evolution and biobehavioral functions. Biological Psychology 74, 263-285.
Ekman, P., Sorenson, E.R., & Friesen, W.V. (1969). Pan-cultural elements in facial displays of emotion. Sicnce, New Series, 164(3875), 86-88.
Ekman, P., & Friesen, E.V. (1971). Constants across cultures in the face and emotion. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 17(2), 124-129.
Graziano, P., & Derefinko, K. (2013). Cardiac vagal control and children’s adaptive functioning: A meta-analysis. Biological Psychology 94(1), 22-37.
Hanazawa, H. (2022). Polyvagal Theory and its clinical potential: An overview. Brain Nerve 74(8), 1011-1016.
Harmer, C.J., Duman, R.S., & Cowen, P.J. (2017). How do antidepressants work? New perspectives for refining treatment approaches. Lancet Psychiatry 4(5), 409-418.
Kawai, H., Kishimoto, M., Okahisa, Y., Sakamoto, S., Terada, S., & Takaki, M. (2023). Initial outcomes of the Safe and Sound Protocol on Patients with Autism Spectrum Disorder: Exploratory Plot Study. International Journal of Environmental Research and Publich Health 20(6), 4862.
Laborde, S., Moseley, E., & Mertgen, A. (2018). A unifying conceptual framework of factors associated to cardiac vagal tone. Heliyon 4(12), e01002.
Lehrer, P. (2013). How does heart rate variability biofeedback work? Resonance, the baroreflex, and other mechanisms. Biofeedback 41(1), 26-31.
Luck, A. (2022, October 29). Polyvgal Theory: A critical appraisal. Author. Retrieved from: https://alyssaluck.com/polyvagal-theory-a-critical-appraisal/
McCraty, R. (2011). Coherence: Bridging personal, social and global health. Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine 53(3), 85-102.
Poli, A., Gemignani, A., Soldani, F., & Miccoli, M. (2021). A systematic review of a polyvagal perspective on embodied contemplative practices as promoters of cardiorespiratory coupling and traumatic stress recovery for PTSD and OCD: Research methodologies and state of the art. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health 18(22), 11778.
Polyvagal Institute (2023, February). Polyvagal Theory: Summary, Premises, and Current Status. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org/_files/ugd/8e115b_f8f82f01065b41dc85e7698fd4f99818.pdf?index=true
Porges, S. (2021). Polyvagal Theory: A biobehavioral journey to sociality. Comprehensive Psychoneuroendocrinology 7, 100069.
Porges, S.W. (2007). The polyvagal perspective. Biological Psychology 74(2), 116-143.
Porges, S. (1995). Orienting in a defensive world: Mammalian modifications of our evolutionary heritage. A Polyvagal Theory. Psychophysiology 32, 301-318.
Rutherford, B.R., & Roose, S.P. (2013). A model of placebo response in antidepressant clinical trials. The American Journal of Psychiatry 170(7), 723-733.
Shaffer, F., McCraty, R., & Zerr, C.L. (2014). A healthy heart is not a metronome: An integrative review of the heart’s anatomy and heart rate variability. Frontiers in Psychology 5, 1040.
Siegel, E. H., Sands, M. K., Condon, P., Chang, Y., Dy, J., Quigley, K. S., & Barrett, L. F. 2018. "Emotion fingerprints or emotion populations? A meta-analytic investigation of autonomic features of emotion categories." Psychological Bulletin, 144(4), 343-393.
Turner, E. H., Cipriani, A., Furukawa, T. A., Salanti, G., & de Vries, Y. A. (2022). Selective publication of antidepressant trials and its influence on apparent efficacy: Updated comparisons and meta-analyses of newer versus older trials. PLoS medicine, 19(1), e1003886.
Unyte (n.d.). Polyvagal Theory: Start with safety. Author. Retrieved from: https://integratedlistening.com/polyvagal-theory/
Unyte (2023, June 22). Disrupting overactive survival reactions with the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP). Author. Retrieved from: https://integratedlistening.com/case-study/disrupting-overactive-survival-reactions-with-the-safe-and-sound-protocol-ssp/
Yasmin (2023). What is the hierarchy ladder in Polyvagal Theory? Polyvagal Teen. Retrieved from: https://polyvagalteen.com/polyvagal-theory-101/what-is-the-hierarchy-ladder-in-polyvagal-theory/
Get the Snipd
podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered
Discover
highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any
moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share
& Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered
podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover
highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode