Managing Chaos With Lisa Welchman

James: I think we can be more those times when we kind of notice something and maybe push back a bit. There's the window is always there the window where you have power, which put so many constraints on the whole idea of policy making. And we still haven't solved the international aspect. Still to end on a positive note I mean for me since I'm a person who's been very engaged and truly working with digital ethics for a while now her points about helping educate people as you're saying are really good.