This week, Ron Dermer resigned from the Israeli cabinet, stepping down as minister of strategic affairs after years of working closely with Prime Minister Netanyahu to guide Israel through this last harrowing chapter of the country's history. It's a moment of transition—and it brings to mind another such moment, five years ago, when Dermer prepared to leave his post as Israel's ambassador to the United States.

In December 2020, Mosaic's editor Jonathan Silver sat with the departing ambassador and asked him to reflect on his eight years in Washington—years that saw the nuclear deal with Iran, the rise and fall of Islamic State, and the signing of the Abraham Accords.

Much has changed since then. October 7 shattered assumptions about Israel's security. The war in Gaza has tested the U.S.-Israel relationship in ways that seemed unimaginable in 2020. And yet, much has also endured. The alliance itself remains. The strategic logic Dermer articulates in this conversation—about shared interests, shared values, shared aspirations, shared threats—hasn't disappeared either. Indeed, that strategic logic has become easier to see, not harder.

As Ron Dermer steps back once again, we thought it worth revisiting this earlier moment—to reinhabit the U.S.-Israel relationship before October 7, and to hear one of Israel's great public servants explain why he believed then, and still believes, that it can weather the storms that lie ahead.

Episode 182 - Top 3 (part one): Fountain Pens and Ink

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