I'm very happy for you to carry on believing in God and having your. But I'm saying, but what this idea is because the secular society without the godless are adrift in a place. Well, why don't they get secular rituals? What is the point? Why does he call it religious? And then you knock Ellen as a sort of PR operator. Most religious is PR. And what's a sermon, but a long bit of PR? Grace and to the secular, all things are secular. To me, if you bring God into it, you get a totally different dimension to that art. That art can be taken the way people see it. Religious art should be

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