"Zero party data reflects what customers say they want; first party data reveals what they actually do." – David

In this Hot Seat episode, Jacqueline sits down with David Joosten, co-founder of GrowthLoop and coauthor of First-Party Data Activation, to unpack why so many brands are "doing" first-party data yet still serving generic experiences. They dig into the tension between what customers say versus how they behave, and why marketers need to reconcile that gap with experimentation, empathy, and better use of their own data. Discover why embracing AI decisioning and continuous experimentation are crucial, and learn how to navigate the ethical red lines of using first-party data and AI responsibly in marketing. A must-listen for marketers looking to future-proof their data strategy.

David goes deep on why composable should be the default (not a buzzword), how to think about clean rooms without creeping out your customers, and what AI decisioning actually changes about the marketer's job. From compound growth engines and agentic workflows to team structures and org politics, this is a roadmap for leaders who want first-party data to drive real, measurable growth — not just prettier dashboards.

This episode wouldn't have been possible without the help of our sponsor Hightouch. Looking for a smarter way to activate your customer data? Hightouch is the leading composable CDP and decisioning platform trusted by brands like Domino's, Chime, and Aritzia. 90% of customers have a real use case live within their first week, delivering world-class personalization at scale. Learn more at www.hightouch.com/msom.

Timestamps

01:03 - Rapid Fire: AI generated content (Yay or Nay) and the marketing buzzword that needs to go.

02:30 - Is there ever a time to use third-party data ethically?.

03:54 - The most underrated skill for marketers today.

07:06 - Reconciling the gap between zero-party data (aspiration) and first-party data (behavior).

09:16 - The evolving role of first-party data in the next 3-5 years.

11:50 - Can clean rooms truly scale without compromising trust, and what's the next evolution of ethical data collaboration?

17:18 - What a "future-ready" Martech stack looks like in practice.

21:30 - Ethical red lines for AI: ensuring innovation respects privacy.

33:53 - The three-part advice for CMOs looking to future-proof their data strategy.

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