All right. I can't let TC keep turning the bitchiness dial up and looking at the audience and see. But I, but I do want to pivot back to Sally and, and Toronto wants you to sort of tackle this one. All right. I'm a fan. I like to see birdies like a birdies or seem like really cool. Give me an argument why like what setup should we be trying to have here? What's your, what's my ideal golf tournament going forward and why does a certain setup make things more appealing. KVV,

I'm, I'm chomping at the bit for this one and I'll toss it over to the solid after this. Okay. Context matters. If everybody's making birdies, birdies don't mean anything. Right. Like, all right. Why, why, if birdies are sick, then why is the event at TPC Craig Ranch, not the most watched event on the PGA Tour schedule? Right. Like, it's just since TC people want to see the ball go. All right. But they want. All right. Cool. Everybody, you know, 340 are cool. That means we can't go

to play only Colorado. That only Colorado if this themselves. Why is every event not in Colorado? Why do we not have something in Salt Lake City? Why?

Yeah. Yeah. Those little string rankings are going to be a mess

if we play. Colorado. It's going to be tough. But all right. So

on that front too, like, all right. If everybody's hitting a 330 yard drive, then does a 330 yard drive? Like, like, all right. Who's who's the longest players? All they're doing is actually washing out the context and diminishing any context versus versus making it. So, hey, you know, what the longest player like that's actually really impressive. Or this guy's and I think all it's done is raise parity as well of it's made it harder for the truly dominant and best players to showcase their dominance and skill. And I think it's actually hurt the product in the macro sense of, you know, there's less stars. There's less recognizable. There's less dominance. Right.

So, Sally, can I make the setups harder in a way that is able to challenge players in the modern game?

So I think it's like two different paths. We have to go down with this, right? And if it's. And I've kind of come around a little bit on this in terms of like, if we're on the current path, we're on, which is ball going forever, not spinning and whatnot. I'm as much as I'm a fan of wide. You know, with an angles and wide fairways and kind of the creativity that comes with that. I don't know if that's the best product for. This high level of technology, like I've kind of come around on like, maybe there should be some rough in some of these like there should be some. Now it's really hard to do that thoughtfully. I think Behill does not do that thoughtfully. I think a lot of course on PGA tour. Definitely do not do that thoughtfully. But at the same time, like some more consequence for shots that have gone offline and some penalties are required in some way. Now, a separate path would be a golf ball that does not go nearly this far, which I am a huge fan of a. Driver heads that punish off center misses way more. So the fact that like a wider fairway can would mean a lot more there. If like, if a heel shot is going to go in the rough, you can have more fair more within the fairways as it stands now. It doesn't make sense for 330 yard drives to try to land in 20 yard wide gaps, just be like the scale is just the whole thing is messed up. That's a whole another separate podcast, right? But it's all to say like. Setting up this this era as T.C. has said is automatically you just literally describe the equipment. It is going to bring more players closer together. We've done a bunch of deep dives. KVV of looking into past past, you know, periods of golf and like there's a reason why Jack Nicholas could separate so much from the field in that time period because that man wore out the center of the club face. He wore it out. He was the best at hitting that. And like, now it's just natural. Like as closer and closer and closer as we get to perfect golf or such thing, but the closer we get to it with all of the workouts, all the track man, all the foresight, all the everything, all the technology and all of it heading towards one thing. Naturally, just guys are going to it's going to be harder to separate like that's in in arguable.

It's not whether you ship hunting contest.

Yeah, wherever you stand on the distance debate. It's it's not arguable that it brings people closer together. Like that is the one thing that is I will not accept any argument on. So that's to say like it. The chances of having star power like T.C. said are way less in this era and it is a you need it. You need it in golf. There's a reason what we love the duels, the Watson versus Nicholas, the, you know, the tiger and Phil, the area that they were in. They just clearly separated from that. Vijay was a total star. Ernie L's was a total star. And now we're just kind of seeing this time period. We're like, yeah, maybe, maybe more. Cal only gets two majors. We maybe thought he was Tom Watson.

Maybe T.C. said he was going to be major. Maybe he only

went to like that is an issue in golf. Right. If you want the best, like, I think if you were going to think about more people tuning in and more excitement for it. It is like watching career progression like we saw from Phil. We have a couple of those guys in this era, but at the same time, like it just it is just guys are kind of put more in a blender with the way that current setups are. And also, again, there's so many tentacles to this. But it's like, you're kind of choosing from your own this little lot of golf courses that you can even go to to begin with. And they're not the most interesting golf courses. So people that complain that we isn't a golf course you do like. It's like, yeah, of the ones the pro golf game chooses, not that many. Like there's not that many. There's way better ones out there. They don't make sense to go to with the current technology. It's a very iterative whole thing. Kind of stuff we've talked about for a long period of time. And I don't even remember which original question was other than like. The interest all come like Augustus brilliant at like the consequences very easy to understand of the certain shots of missing there is like you don't even need to be a hardcore fan to be like, Oh God, that is trouble over there. Or that's an incredible shot. And a lot more PGA tour courses. That that consequences is not really there to the same extent.

All right, TC, let's say that since we're going to make this a global product and we're focusing on the television aspect of this stuff. And we know the setups need to get better. Could I in theory create a few more tournaments a year that I could bring 30 40 guys to seminal to Pacific Dunes to Pine Valley? To what places could I go that would make this kind of golf compelling? Are there other golf courses out there that are on the radar that I couldn't convince? I don't need to bring in 25,000 fans every day. Maybe I bring in 2000 fans, but I'm broadcasting this around the world. Where are some places that we could go that would make this worthwhile? Yeah, well,

you know what, Katie, it's funny you mentioned that because the PGA tour has this entire network of courses that were supposedly purpose built to the world. And purpose built to host professional golf tournaments. It's seemingly like don't promote any of the things that we want to see out of a professional golf tournament. And apart from saugrass, I would say with the exception of like a saugrass or

even River Highlands kind of the

problem is they built a 90s and then the technology blew up because they didn't regulate it. Like, I've always got outdated so fast. But yeah, I think it's,

you know, but it comes down to priorities, right? Of, all right, how many guys are in the field? How many, you know, what's the corporate footprint? Because some of it's not even distance related. Some of it's just, hey, this is too small of a piece of property and we can't put corporate hospitality up on it. But if you get it back to, all right, the TV product is the thing and we can, you know, we can have fans here. There's not going to be 100,000 fans. There could be 10,000 fans. I think there's something there. But I think the other thing too is finding places that have volatility, right? If there's nothing worse and TV product with, then, then, I think with the, the equipment. Making it to where, you know, off center hits aren't penalized and, you know, knowing that, all right, down the stretch of a tournament, there's, there's not a lot of volatility or when guys are like, you know, knowing what, like, like, so I said consequences, knowing what a good shot is and a great shot is of, hey, when, when, you know, I think personally speaking, I think you could have. Cut the rough, you know, cut the collar down on 17 or on the right side of 16 last week at sawgrass and made it a lot more. You know, kind of a lot stronger contrast between what a, what a bad shot is and what a good shot is. And what that strip of rough at TPC River Highlands. I mean, it's, it's one of those things of like, if there's more volatility and there's more, oh man, this guy's hanging on for dear life down the stretch of, of a PGA tour event. Like, man, I think, I think more people are going to watch that instead of it just being all right, this guy's got a three shot lead and, you know, we're, we're kind of trundling towards a relatively, you know, bland finish. And I think, yeah, so that comes down to, you know, and I think the other thing is like the ball in the ground. Like there's nothing more exciting on watching golf when the ball is like the players do not have control of the ball when it's on the ground. They're in complete control when it's in the air. And there's drama, there's suspense. There's, there's that hold your breath moment at the best golf tournaments. That's why Augusta's so great because the ball is on those greens and rolling for so long. Why everybody loves watching the open championship. You know, or like, and there's, there's something there. And so I feel like, hey, what are these like, let's distill this down to what are the best ingredients that make really good TV golf tournaments, what make those like, what set those apart and then try to lean into those kind of simple, you know, basic ingredients and then work our way back out from there.

Well said, well said DJ, you know what a big film, Nicholson guy. I am, you know, he and I have been saying for a couple of years. But you know, it'd be sick as if we had a Ryder Cup style event between the live guys and the PGA tour guys. I mean, we know as Phil and I will say, the live guys would just dominate it would cry. It would make the other guys cry. Why can't we have something like this? Is this a realistic possibility? Let's, let's just roll our 12 out there and play for a billion dollars and, you know, just make it the Super Bowl of golf.

So a couple of things. One, I know this is kind of a joke, but sincerely, that would be my favorite event of the year. I can't tell you how quickly I would sign up to watch every shot of that event. And like, bring it on truly. I'm so in on that idea. And I think like the entire golf world. Yes, truly. Like, I don't think anybody would ever do it. Like,

I don't, I don't know why you would be a notes on you. I don't know if I

would want to further exacerbate the golf wars, right? I don't think it's like has longevity. I, I, unless it's not different enough. I mean,

it would like completely normalize live and it would like

be allowed to have the president's cup. It would raise the floor of live.

But yeah, like having a team that you like root for and a team you root against. Like, I think would be like electric. I think the why it obviously will not happen is because golf, again, we kind of touched on this, but it's such a different sport where now you have like the players actually becoming stakeholders and, and actual like, you know, equity holders in their sport. Like what upside is there for Rory or Scotty or speech or any of these guys to like sign up for an event like this? But again, like, do I think that is a dramatic, dramatic difference that would bring in a bunch of casual fans, even if it's like a short term bump? Like, yeah, hell yeah, I do.

Well, and like there's, there's there's revenue associated with that. Sure. Like, having talked to Rory about this whole stuff recently, he would actually, I think, be

like, you know what, as much as this sucks to swallow my ego and like make these people on a team. Like, you know, it's like, if we're trying to make this a better product that that actually like rises the tide to lift all boats, then maybe I should suck it up and do this. Like he doesn't like want to play golf again with Phil and Bryson and people, but like, I think he has a good sense of like, that's what's best for the products that the fans want. Like, we have to swallow our egos a little bit. And that's where I think that he does differentiate a little bit from some of his peers who are like, man, f those guys. And I think there was a lot of people who'd be like, I'm never stepping on us, you know, same playing field as them to equal them. I don't think Rory is actually

one of those. I think that's different than what I think that's different than what the question is, though. I don't think, again, a live versus PGA Tour cup or whatever is only going to further like cement this like split squad thing, whereas Rory is kind of like, we got to get the golf world back together and I'm fine to go play next to these guys because that's what's going to serve golf fans. I'm not like seemingly it doesn't

it doesn't seem like we're any closer to doing that. So from it. Yeah. And it's like cool. Then you know what? Like, let's make the most of it. And I mean, shit, I'd love to talk about this on the Sunday pod this week of like, cool, like if you're live, which 12 guys are you sending out? Like, it's fascinating. And you're going to send it from the future. And like, you know, who's going to get to ampere

who's great Norman, having to make those calls. I'm sorry. You know, we're not we're not bringing you Martin

Kymer. If you're telling me like you can wake up on a Sunday morning and you have Taylor Gooch versus Scotty Scheffler as like the lead off match of like deciding this event. Like you wouldn't be just glued to that event. I straight up to you now believe you have you better than the rider. I guess I

have to think about that more. It just is all they are is just dudes that picked like two different. If one thing is live is established is like we have no idea

how these teams came together. Right. And that's why they definitely should not do it, by the way, right. Just again, it just shooting themselves repeatedly in the foot. But what I watch it as a fan. Yes, I would. That's what I'm trying to say. That's

all right. So what what got to all I think you have one more thing. But maybe it's part of this. What element of team golf should play a role in whatever we have next because I think it's pretty clear that Yasser for whatever reason feels like there should be team golf going forward. Live has sort of staked their we're different on this. How do we do that going forward? Because as a fan, I don't care about live maybe. But I do like the idea of like Jordan Smith, Justin Thomas team taking on, you know, a John Rumb walking Neiman team on a sleazy Saturday morning from Wentworth or something. Let's let's say what element of that should be part of it.

I'm back and forth on this because I was all in on the, the, the PGL. I had to think about what it was actually the acronym was it's been so long on it. But the plan sounded super interesting because honestly, P.J. to her golf had gotten super stale and just needed a shake up of some kind and there's a lot of really good ideas there. And yet, since then I think I've, I think one thing I've maybe undersold about that was the fact like the majors are going to be 72 holes of stroke play and like that is the peak format of golf, right? So I think that there needs to be 47 events mimicking that. No, I do not. But like there's something to golf being an individual sport and 72 holes of stroke play is like the majority of what's going to make this up. Now I do like the PGA tour is now January through August and the fall is kind of like figuring out eligibility and all that. And like, do I think that there's space for the top 48 guys to make four man teams and play in that time period. As long as you can explain to me how these teams are actually coming together as long as there's a fucking draft. There has to be a draft like there has to be some qualification for this league. If you want like people to actually care about this, it cannot be drawn up on the back of an app game with clipart and things like that. And then you can see that in the same schedule. That is where things just don't work in my opinion. So perfect world. It doesn't sound like they're that close to this, but you know, four rounds stroke play events, take place January through August and team stuff happens in the fall. You can get creative on what night of the week it is doesn't have to be Sunday doesn't have to be four rounds. It doesn't have to, you know, is it, you know, JT's four man team plays ROMs, four man team on a Wednesday afternoon on the West Coast, which is somewhat prime time on the East. And one day thing it's matches, you know, one night. There's a winner and a loser total for that week. And like you have a win, you know, one win, one loss out of it instead of points and all that. Is there something there? I think there is. I just, there's so far away from getting that figured out. And that doesn't seem to be the way that they're kind of picturing this.