A conversation with celebrated author George Saunders about his new novel, Vigil, and what fiction can teach us about empathy, self-awareness, and mortality.
George Saunders is the bestselling, award-winning author of Lincoln in the Bardo, Tenth of December, and many other books. His new novel, Vigil, tells the story of a woman who died in 1976 and has spent the decades since comforting the dying—until she encounters a former oil executive responsible for early climate change denial.
In this conversation, Dan and George talk about:
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Why George keeps writing about ghosts and the afterlife (hint: it's not just about mortality dread)
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The lavish empathy at the heart of Vigil—and whether we should extend that empathy even to people doing civilizational damage
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What George calls "warm metacognition"—the practice of dropping back out of your thought loops to examine what kind of goggles you're wearing
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How fiction can turn your mind into a "reconsideration machine" (and why that matters in real life)
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The difference between kindness and niceness
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George's relationship with death anxiety, which he's had since childhood and which has only intensified with age
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What George has learned about listening from teaching and hosting his Substack, Story Club
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Why the older he gets, the more important it is to stretch himself creatively
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His advice for dealing with stuckness (in writing and in life): curiosity over self-accusation
George's new novel Vigil is out January 27th from Random House. Check out his Substack, Story Club, where he discusses classic short stories with an incredibly thoughtful community.
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