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love the idea of asking. As you nicely said it, you you don't get what you don't ask for a hundred % of the time. If you ask, you may or may not get it, but if you don't ask, you don't get it at all. I think that that's right. And the other point that you make, which i think is extraordinarily important. For forty or 50 years, companies throughout the world, but certainly in the silicon valley, have said, you are responsible for your career. And none the less, many people, both men and women, believe that the company, as some paternal matenal figure, is going to take care of them. And one of the things that comes cleare, and in the commenta you'v just made, is you are responsible for your career, and therefore you need to take the career, your career into your own hands. You need to decide, as you said, number one, what you want, and number two, how you're going to get that.

Absolutely i think that we hat to leave so many things to chance. Like think about the plans that you make for your project, or your team or and so one thing i call as i product manage your career like youn product manage your product. If you're an engineer, your product manager, your designer, you have plans, you have goals, you have metrics. But we treat our career so much more cavalierly than we treat our own work, you know. And so how about you say, you know what? The intentionality i put to my project, the road map that i have, the goals that i set, what if you did that for your caree? Think about how much more powerful that is for you.

I think that's, that's exactly right. I mean, and the word that comes to mind as you're talking about that is agentic, you know. And i think one of the things that i've seen you change over the time you've been working with katya verrison and and the time you've been coming to my class, i've seen two changes in you. One is what you've just described, and the other is your executive presents. And so i want to spend the last question i want to ask you is about executive presents. Sylvieand hulet wrote this report on how one of the reasons why asian americans don't advance as much as cause they don't have as much executive presents. What have you done to build your executive presents? And what advice would you give to others? Yet,

one of my chapters is actually called finding your voice. And i think that the biggest issue for me was, as you know, as i said, i grew up really shy and greubly quiet. And i grew up with parents who taught me to thrive in a collective society. And then you get to the work force and you realize that what leadership looks like in america is completely different than what my parents had told me. And i had to figure out, like, what am i going to do about this? You know, i could have said, well, i'm introverted. This is just the way i am. But instead i said, ok, in order to be successful, and by the way, there's a huge bias in the workplace we don't talk about. And the biggest bias is we have a huge bias for people who speak up and are able to speak intelligently about almost anything. It is a massive bias that we just do not speak about. But if you look at the most senior people, that's what happens. And i was so uncomfortable with this, but i had to decide at one point i either learned how to do this, or i would not be successful as a leader. And so i worked incredibly hard to learn this. I took speaking classes. I forced myself to do speaking engagements. I would test myself and and learn this. And i treated it like a skill, you know. Rather than saying, well, you know, i just don't know how to do this, i forced myself. I would go to panels at your class d force myself to answer hard questions. And you know, each time you do it, it get a little easier, until it's second nature. And i think the the most important thing in your career is having that learning mind set, which is, if this is what success looks like, what am i going to do to achieve it, and how am i going to achieve it? And to i learned that this was what i needed to do. And i i set goals. I set metrick i worked on it. And, you know, i'm here to day having this conversation easily because of all that. But i think sometimes we cind of have this fixed idea whell i was just, you know, this is how i 's how i've been, you know, i'm shy, i'm introverted. I can't do anything about it. And i think that's the wrong answer. The right answer is, in order to lead, in order to have influence, in order to help my team to be successful, i needed to do a thing, and i needed to figure that out. And if i was learning spanish, i would do that, you know, t this is what i needed to do. And and i think sometimes we kind of say, well, i'm just bad at languages. Or you say, you know what, in order to work with my team, i need to learn spanish. I gong to do it. And if it's something else like you lust figure out what that isd and find a way to do it for yourself.