Intro

This episode is sponsored by Lockton, click here to learn more

Watch the full video on YouTube - click here

The auto industry is at a crossroads. Legacy automakers have poured billions into electric vehicles but are still trying to catch up. Why? Because breaking free from the systems built for gas-powered cars isn't easy.

In this episode, Mike Colias, the Wall Street Journal's deputy bureau chief for autos, joins Jan Griffiths to talk about the messy reality of the EV transition. 

Drawing from his book Inevitable: Inside the Messy, Unstoppable Transition to Electric Vehicles, they dive into why legacy automakers continue to struggle, what's really slowing things down, and how culture—not just technology—is the real battle.

In 2022, Ford executives gathered in a nearly empty warehouse, staring at two cars: a Mustang Mach-E and a Tesla Model 3. It wasn't just a teardown—it was an autopsy. As they examined the differences, it became clear: Tesla was years ahead in design efficiency, cost-cutting, and scale, while Ford's EV was still burdened by old-school engineering.

This wasn't just a Ford problem—it was an industry-wide issue. GM had glimpses of an EV future with the Volt, but its rigid structure forced compromises. Meanwhile, Tesla and Chinese automakers moved fast, unburdened by legacy processes and cultures resistant to change.

But the real problem isn't just technology—it's culture. The systems that perfected combustion engine manufacturing are now roadblocks to innovation in the EV era, and the old ways of working simply don't translate to EV success.

So, what happens next? With China producing high-quality, affordable EVs at an unprecedented pace and global competition intensifying, automakers can't afford to cling to the past. The shift to EVs is inevitable—but will legacy automakers evolve fast enough to stay in the race?

Listen now to get the inside story on the biggest transformation in automotive history!

Themes discussed in this episode:

• The messy and expensive reality of the EV transition for legacy automakers
• Why the shift to EVs is inevitable, despite industry resistance
• Why traditional car companies struggle to match Tesla’s speed and efficiency
• How legacy automakers' old ways of working are slowing down EV progress
• How Chinese automakers are producing cheaper, high-quality EVs at scale
• The growing threat of Chinese EVs and what it means for U.S. automakers
• How leadership decisions at Ford, GM, and others shape the future of EVs

Featured guest: Mike Colias

What he does: Mike is the deputy bureau chief for autos at The Wall Street Journal, covering the auto industry’s shift to EVs, self-driving cars, and emerging technologies. Based in Detroit, he writes and edits stories on Ford, GM, and the challenges facing legacy automakers as they navigate change.

He’s also the author of Inevitable: Inside the Messy, Unstoppable Transition to Electric Vehicles (2025), a book that examines the EV transition and what it means for all of us.

Before WSJ, Mike covered GM at Automotive News and reported on healthcare at Crain’s Chicago Business and The Associated Press.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Inevitable: Inside the Messy, Unstoppable Transition to Electric Vehicles
• Meet Dr. Andy Palmer, former COO of Nissan and CEO of Aston Martin

Episode Highlights:

[03:20] Telling the EV Story No One Else Did: Industry news is often just scattered soundbites, but Mike saw the bigger picture—a once-in-a-century disruption that needed to be told as a story, not just headlines.

[05:11] Ford’s Wake-Up Call: When Jim Farley ordered a side-by-side teardown of Ford’s Mustang Mach-E and Tesla’s Model 3, the results were sobering—too many bolts, too much wiring, and a clear reminder that Tesla was playing a different game.

[08:18] Tesla Proved Them Wrong—Again and Again: Legacy automakers laughed at Tesla, doubted its ability to build cars, then dismissed its ability to scale—until it did both and left them scrambling to catch up.

[11:03] The Chevy Volt That Could Have Been: GM had the vision for an iconic EV, but corporate compromises turned a sleek prototype into just another car—while Tesla, unburdened by legacy systems, built a sleek, head-turning EV that redefined the market.

[13:00] Why Legacy Auto Struggles to Innovate: GM’s century-old playbook was built for gas cars, not EVs—forcing the Volt into a system designed for cost-cutting, while Tesla had the freedom to reinvent from scratch.

[14:57] Tech Won’t Fix What Culture Holds Back: Automakers love to talk about EVs and innovation, but real transformation depends on breaking old habits, not just building new tech—something even skunkworks teams struggle to escape.

[18:51] Can VW and Rivian Find the Right Balance? Volkswagen has scale, Rivian has the brand—if they can blend legacy expertise with startup agility, it might be exactly what’s needed to push through this messy EV transition.

[20:43] The Right Culture Isn’t One-Size-Fits-All: Dr. Andy Palmer believes leaders shouldn’t choose between legacy structure and startup agility—they should create their own culture. But as Stellantis and GM show, shifting an established culture is much harder than starting from scratch.

[24:04] NIO’s Cult-Like Brand Loyalty: While legacy automakers struggle to stay relevant, NIO has created a cult-like following with sleek design, premium experiences, and a brand loyalty Ford and GM can only dream of.

[32:11] The EV Future: Legacy automakers may resist, but global competition, consumer demand, and technology shifts make the EV transition less of a choice and more of an inevitability.

[35:22] The Threat You Can’t See Feels Less Real: Chinese automakers are making waves in Europe and Mexico, but in the U.S., complacency lingers because the competition isn’t visible—yet. Will Detroit be ready when it arrives?

Top Quotes:

[09:45] Mike: “GM’s a great example. I mean, going all the way back to the EV1 in the 1990s and Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and the Chevy Volt, and then the Bolt. I mean, it was like this dabbling in electrification. I don't know that it was a conscious decision that, "Oh, this program is not making money, so we're going to cut it." I mean, I think that happened, but I think there were plenty of people inside the company that probably believe today we could have been Tesla had we just followed through with this stuff. I just think it's a tough thing. This is like the innovator's dilemma, right? Can you give up the thing that you've been so successful with for decades to grasp onto this other thing that's going to be painful in the short to medium term? We're not going to make money on it, and it's not our sweet spot. And companies just have a subconscious hesitancy to go all in.”

[12:18] Mike: “Tesla was designing the Model S from scratch. It didn't have any of those constraints; they didn't have to figure out, "Okay, what platform are we going to put this on to really contain costs?" And so, the Chevy Volt came out, and it was considered like this breakthrough product, right? GM got a lot of accolades for that. It had a very cult following fan base, but it wasn't what Tesla ended up doing, which was, hey, look at this electric car that can look like a stunning car that you'd want to show your neighbor when you get it home from the showroom. It didn't have that "it" factor that Tesla was able to build its brand around and grow from there.”

[16:00] Mike: “They created a skunkworks team out in California of like a hundred engineers. And they've been trying to sort of work outside of the Ford machine, but I think in talking to people about where it's at now, eventually, you have to go back to the machine to get the thing, you know, built, inspect, and engineering manufacturing stuff. It's just that part's been hard. It sounds like they made a lot of progress in the skunk works, mirroring it back into the organization; you're kind of facing a lot of those same constraints. So, it's a universal problem in the auto industry. We need a clean sheet design to make these electric cars as optimized as possible. It's been hard for the legacy automakers.

[34:41] Mike: “People love EVs, the people who drive them—they're quick, they're quiet, they feel like you're driving the future. You know, Tesla has super high brand loyalty, that's for a reason… EVs just fit with what the car companies want to do in terms of more digitization and monetizing the data that comes from the car, autonomous driving, and assisted driving. You can do all that stuff in a gas car. It's easier to do in electric cars. And so, there's just a lot of reasons why. It's going to be ugly and painful for a while for a lot of these companies, but I think it's going to continue to move down that path.”

[37:16] Mike: “Consumers are eventually going to demand if you've got these quality cars that are affordable. We've already got a big affordability problem in the industry. I think the executives who I talked to realize that these tariffs aren't bulletproof. We've seen how government policy can change very quickly, especially, in this country, and they're gearing up, even though it's really hard right now, to eventually compete with China, but they're several years behind. And I think that's what the next few years is going to be about—how this market matures in the US and how the companies can go about shoring up some of these losses and actually getting to profitability because, obviously, that's going to be the name of the game for the companies.”