Carlo Collodi’s The Adventures of Pinocchio is a dark, dazzling Italian fable that is worlds apart from Disney’s sanitized version. Beneath its fantasticism and humor, the story is brimming with poverty, violence, and existential peril. In this episode, Australian rock legend Nick Cave joins Shilo Brooks to talk about one of the best-selling and most widely translated books ever written.

Together, they explore how transgression and disobedience shape character and how art thrives in defiance of conformity. Cave reflects on how the story helped him process grief after the death of his son. In examining the puppet’s journey to becoming a real boy, Cave and Brooks consider how love and suffering make all of us real.

Old School is proudly brought to you by the Jack Miller Center. If you believe in the importance of civic education and want to help prepare the next generation to carry on our democracy, join us at JackMillerCenter.org.

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