The Dangers of Zero Sum Thinking

I think that zero sum thinking is the enemy, right? And it's not to suggest that there aren't areas where there are trade-offs and so on. The difficulty I think comes, this may be an area of disagreement between us, is that part of the journey for me has actually been to move away from a view that gender is socialized... "We have to find a way to kind of live well together"

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Brookings Institution scholar and author Richard Reeves tackles the issue of young men falling behind, and how to uplift them without jeopardizing women's rights. In this compelling and personal conversation, Richard delves into his book, "Of Boys and Men," revealing insights on the growing education gap, the push for men in care professions, and the quest for examples of "non-toxic" masculinity that differ from traditional femininity. Join us as we discuss redefining gender roles, fostering equality, and reevaluating the term "toxic masculinity" all together.

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Timecodes:

0:00 Richard started to see his own masculinity as the problem

09:21 Richard’s wife challenged him to reclaim the positivity of his masculinity

15:50 Ending zero sum thinking in feminism, making equality erotic

28:40 Why we can’t call what’s happening to boys “inequality”

36:09 How are studies of boys and men taking boys of color into account?

46:26 Who benefits from Andrew Tate’s platform and others like him?

52:55 Working class and middle class men are doing the worst

1:00:00 Why Dads Matter

01:15:32: Justin’s book’s success made Richard feel “not enough”

01:19:18 What does it mean to be Man Enough?

Quotes:

“I had thought that in order to be a good feminist I needed to become less…I think that’s a part of a larger societal challenge that we need to rise together, we don’t need one sex to become less for the other to become more.” - Richard Reeves

“How do we make equality erotic?” - Richard Reeves

“I have yet to find anybody that can define non-toxic masculinity in a way that is distinct from femininity.” - Richard Reeves

“It’s incredibly early in a revolution, we’ve had half a revolution if that, in terms of gender.” - Richard Reeves

About Richard Reeves:

Richard Reeves is a Brookings Institution scholar and renowned author and social commentator, known for his insightful analysis of contemporary social issues, particularly those affecting boys and men in today's rapidly changing world.

Read Of Boys And Men

In Of Boys and Men Richard Reeves explores the changing dynamics between men and boys in contemporary society. The book calls for greater understanding, support, and intervention to help them overcome these obstacles and build a more equitable and successful future.

Guest Social Links:

Twitter: :@RichardvReeves

Guest Host: Christopher Rivas

Christopher Rivas is an actor, author, podcaster, and storyteller. He is the host of two podcast series with SiriusXM's Stitcher: Brown Enough, and Rubirosa. On screen, Rivas is known for his work on the Fox series, Call Me Kat. He has recently released his first book Brown Enough, which explores what it means to be Brown in America.

Man Enough book: https://manenough.com/books

Boys Will Be Human book: https://boyswillbehuman.com

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Liz Plank

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Jamey Heath

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