In 2021, Dr. Francis Collins stepped down after a dozen years leading the National Institutes of Health. He had just overseen the government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic,in the early days of changing public health guidance as scientists learned more about this new virus. He was also involved in the quickest development of a vaccine in history.

Now, he’s had some time to reflect on how the US arrived at such a divisive place about COVID-19 and vaccines, how trust in science has dwindled, and what we can do about it.

Ira sits down with Dr. Collins to talk about the lessons from his new book, The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith and Trust, and why he decided to speak publicly about his prostate cancer diagnosis.

Transcripts for each segment will be available after the show airs on sciencefriday.com.

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