Send us a text

Ponch and Moose connect with Brent Sadler, a retired U.S. Navy Captain and Senior Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, discussing maritime strategy, U.S.-China relations, and naval power in the Indo-Pacific. 

Sadler reflects on his collaboration with Ponch at PACOM (now INDOPACOM) from 2012-2015, where they shifted from linear, phase-based planning to non-linear, adaptive approaches like complex adaptive systems and a "spectrum of rivalry" to counter China's hybrid threats. 

The conversation covers the ongoing "new Cold War" with China, which Sadler argues began post-Tiananmen Square in 1989 and encompasses economic, diplomatic, informational, and societal warfare rather than just kinetic conflict. Key examples include China's maritime insurgency in the South China Sea, the West Capella incident as a model of "naval statecraft," and historical influences like unrestricted warfare, the 100 Years of Humiliation, and WWII collaborations. Sadler critiques U.S. shipbuilding deficiencies, advocates for reforms like a Naval Act and unmanned systems, and addresses topics such as Force Design 2030, the 2027 Taiwan threat timeline, the Fat Leonard scandal, Panama Canal security, and Tomahawk transfers to Ukraine. He emphasizes non-linear thinking, cultural understanding, and building industrial capacity to deter China, drawing from his personal background growing up in Asia and professional experiences.

Naval Power in Action 

U.S. Naval Power in the 21st Century: A New Strategy for Facing the Chinese and Russian Threat 

NWO Intro with Boyd

March 25, 2025

Flow Learning Lab

Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast
Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation

Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at:
https://www.aglx.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting
https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera
https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone

Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes.
Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch:

The No Bell Podcast Episode 24
...