Reward vs. Relief Drinkers

Katie is a journalist, podcaster, and longtime friend of the Dish. She’s a former staff writer at The Stranger, and she’s contributed to The Atlantic, The Guardian, The Free Press, and The Weekly Dish. She hosts the podcast “Blocked and Reported” alongside Jesse Singal, and she just wrote her first book, Drink Your Way Sober: The Science-Based Method to Break Free from Alcohol.

For two clips of our convo — how Katie’s drinking became a problem, and why naltrexone isn’t widely known — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: raised in western Carolina; Katie’s first drink; studying abroad in England for the lower drinking age; Churchill’s boozing; pub culture in the UK; being energized by alcohol vs sedated; chasing the buzz; the cycle of denial; the AA notion that one drink is too many; how rats react to alcohol; the parallels with Ozempic; why I started smoking weed; Ken Burns on Prohibition; the founder of AA; the belladonna and antabuse treatments; the Sinclair Method; why Mormons are so great; why Gen Z is drinking less; Covid alcoholism; the unsightly effects of booze; drinking in secret; the shame of addiction; PrEP; the meth crisis among gays; the high rates of lesbian divorce; Nancy Mace and Megyn Kelly going radical; the belief that recovery should be hard and medication is cheating; AA’s hold on the legal system; opioids; and the massive death toll of alcohol.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on AI, Charles Murray on finding religion, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.