I was interested in that journey from being somebody who is, you know, feels very oppositional to the mainstream and has to fight to be a voice in society. So Anna hasn't really been doing that. She's been creating this kind of sort of very marginalised theatre for something like 40 years,. whereas I have slowly worked my way into what would be seen as mainstream positions. Even though I'm in these institutions, I am still advocating for inclusion because that's so important to me. And also setting up various diversity initiatives to open the doors for other people. But if you look at what I do within those institutions, then actually I'm sort of dismantling the status quo from within.