How Do You Deal With Ministers?

There were similar allegations against Gavin Williamson, who did get sacked. It feels like there's something deeper going on here, Sam. There's either a systemic issue with appointing ministers or there's some kind of culture clash with civil service. And I think that is true. Nobody can excuse poor behavior in the workplace. But we have to create a bit more kind of seriousness about how one responds to civil servants and how one deals with ministers.